The Poop On Ancient Man

The Globe And Mail ^ | 6-19-2004 | Jacob Berkowitz

[blam]

Hendrik Poinar is holding a small plastic vial containing some of the oldest DNA ever extracted from human remains. The snips of genetic material are from a native American who made his home 8,000 years ago in a massive cliff-side rock shelter in southwestern Texas.

[sawmill trash]

Probably pretty much whatever they could find that didn't eat them first.

[Rytwyng]

Neanderthals ate nearly all meat and fat -- they largely lived in very cold conditions where the plant life mostly wasn't useable (directly) by mankind. So they hunted large grazers and fat bears.

Whereas the reconstructionist was analyzing southwestern Natives who lived near a river, hence the cactus, fish, and various desert plants. Even in a desert, there's a lot of useful plant food -- more than the ancient mammoth steppe. However native diets, before agriculture, were ALWAYS high in animal products, in ALL parts of the world, even the warmer areas.

Interesting reading: Guts and Grease -- the Diet of Native Americans. Paleo-European diets were similar.

[djf]

The internal lining of the human intestine is frequently shed and regrown.

[dixie sass]

Or pre-clovis

[broadsword]

Neanderthals ate nearly all meat and fat...

So Atkins was a Neanderthal? No wonder they lived so much longer than we carb eaters. I wonder if they were all over 300 pounds of blubber when they died, like Atkins was.

[Rytwyng]

wonder if they were all over 300 pounds of blubber when they died, like Atkins was

Inaccurate. When Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice and fell (an accident that could have happened to anyone, including a Neanderthal!), he was admitted to the hospital and at admission was weighed in at 195 lbs -- a healthy weight for his height (6-something).

While he languished in a coma with a fractured skill and other injuries, he suffered fluid swelling (edema), causing him to bloat up to about 260 lbs at his death. Various dishonest Atkins haters seized on this final figure as "proof" that he was ~65 lbs overweight at his death -- but in fact, he was fit and healthy until his accident.

[broadsword]

Sorry. That's all I had heard. Thanks for the correction.

[broadsword]

Wait a minute. People LOSE weight when in a coma, don't they?

[monkeyman81]

Heard about this. Now Southwestern prehistory is really being reinterpreted. I had always heard about the Anasazi, Sinagua, Fremont, etc. being peaceful yeoman farmers, but I had always wondered why they built "cliff dwellings".
I used to figure it was because of the Apaches and Navajos, but those groups really came in from the northeast not more than 50-100 years before the Spanish.
Now they're looking at the role of Mesoamericans in founding Chaco (the Mayas and Toltecs practiced ritual cannibalism at that time) and the role of warfare in the disintegration of the Anasazi civilization.
I hope to read a book called Prehistoric Warfare in the American Southwest, by Steven LeBlanc. He and Turner are really responsible for this reinterpretation.

[Rytwyng]

Sorry. That's all I had heard. Thanks for the correction.

No problem. My ire is directed at those who knowingly spread the misinformation far and wide. It's astonishing how much hatred the Atkins diet inspires, and the dishonest lengths some folks will go to discredit it. And yet for many people it's absolutely the only diet that works! But it's un-PC because it's not vegetarian.

BTW.. Neanderthals were ultra muscular: Valerius Geist -- the Neanderthal Paradigm

[Rytwyng]

Wait a minute. People LOSE weight when in a coma, don't they?

It depends on the nature of their injuries. Also, probably how long the coma lasts -- someone in a coma for years likely would lose a lot of muscle weight. But Dr. Atkins was only in a coma for a few weeks.

[Rytwyng]

Also... hospital food is loaded with carbs! If they were giving him IV glucose that would totally screw up ketosis and possibly cause a lot of weight gain in a hurry.

[broadsword]

Ketosis is what the Atkins dies does for you. You lose weight because of poor health. You could do the same with a stiff combination of wiskey, tobacco and influenza. In fact, that combination might also bring on the same irritability, mood swings, memory loss and fanaticism.

[dread78645]

Ketosis is what the Atkins dies does for you. You lose weight because of poor health.

Yes. No.

Ketosis is the presence of ketones ("short-chain" 2 or 4 carbon fatty acid molecules) in the blood. When serum glucose (blood sugar) is not available, the liver metabolizes fat ("long-chain" > 4 carbon molecules) to produce glycogen and ketone bodies. The glycogen molecules are then further broken down to glucose and water. The ketones are expelled in the urine and respiration.

Poor or good health has nothing to do with it. Just the bodies preference of getting energy from sugar or fat (for Atkins dieters body fat).

[broadsword]

The energy from fat does not pass the blood/brain barrier as energy from sugar does.

My mother has a masters in Dietetics. She is terrified of what the Atkins does to the brain, kidneys and liver. My uncle, on the other hand, is an Atkins religious fanatic. But since he has gone on it, he has turned into a moody, fanatical, irritible nut. He scares me now and has blown up with so many irrational accusations against those who love him.

I hope the problem is reversible and he gets back to normal when (I hope) he dumps it. I want my uncle back.

[dread78645]

The energy from fat does not pass the blood/brain barrier as energy from sugar does.

The liver will metabolize fatty acids and produce ketone bodies plus glycogen.
As I said above, the glycogen is then further broken down to glucose + water.

Both glucose and some common ketones, in particular acetoacetate, will both cross the blood/brain barrier. The brain will preferentially use glucose but acetoacetate is a serviceable source of energy for the brain as an alternate.

But that is besides the point; On Atkins, you'll never get the point of zero serum glucose. The 20 grams of carbohydrates allowed in the first restrictive phase is more than enough to supply the brain's normal requirements of glucose.

My uncle, on the other hand, is an Atkins religious fanatic. But since he has gone on it, he has turned into a moody, fanatical, irritible nut.

Atkins (and South Beach) strictly limit carbs and sugars for two weeks to break the addictive (and it is an addiction) pattern. After that, you'll add in healthy carbs as long as you continue to lose weight (remain in ketosis i.e. metabolizing body fat). Once you get to the target weight, you add enough carbohydrates to maintain it.

I'm sorry, but if this has gone on for more than two weeks it is not Atkins and it sounds like your uncle is a " religious, fanatical, irritible nut".

[blam]

"He and Turner are really responsible for this reinterpretation."

I like Turner. My son got his PhD from ASU and occassionally bumped into him.

Here's a book I read that you may find interesting. Nancy makes a compelling argument.

The Zuni Enigma

Did a group of thirteenth-century Japanese journey to the American Southwest, there to merge with the people, language, and religion of the Zuni tribe?"
For many years, anthropologists have understood the Zuni in the American Southwest to occupy a special place in Native American culture and ethnography. Their language, religion, and blood type are startlingly different from all other tribes. Most puzzling, the Zuni appear to have much in common with the people of Japan.

[solitas]

Coprolites are nothing new (pun pun) - they've been studied for years.

[A.J.Armitage]

A question: would things like biting the inside of your lips or sucking the blood from a wound to prevent infection put human (your own) protein in your stool? I suspect the answer is yes, but not in the amounts found, but I'm still curious.

[blam]

"A question: would things like biting the inside of your lips or sucking the blood from a wound to prevent infection put human (your own) protein in your stool? I suspect the answer is yes, but not in the amounts found, but I'm still curious."

I expect digestive juices would destroy the DNA but, I don't know. I was wondering how they kept the DNA of the eater seperated from the DNA of the eaten. This may explain that...don't know though.