Posted on 10/25/2003 3:07:18 PM PDT by Jen
Washington D.C. - 10/25/03
Counter-protesters were harassed, threatened, and some assaulted by security personnel of the anti-Iraq Occupation rally (International A.N.S.W.E.R.) before police appeared and relocated the counter-protesters in Washington D.C. today. No arrests were reported, but there was one unconfirmed report of a pregnant female counter-protester being injured in the fracas.
The counter-protesters, consisting of members of the web-based ProtestWarrior.com and FreeRepublic.com, arrived at the protest at approximately 1:30PM carry pro-America signs and positioned themselves just north of the stage area on Constitution Avenue, N.W. They had no permit to organize as a group.
The counter-protesters stood quietly holding their signs aloft. The signs, attempts at humor, had slogans such as; "Communism has only killed 100-million people, let's give it another chance, " and "Screw the Kurds, No war in Iraq."
Within 10 minutes of their arrival, security members from International A.N.S.W.E.R., organizers of today's Anti-U.S. policy protest, appeared and began to cordon-off the area occupied by the counter-protesters using yellow tape.
Within moments, members of the International A.N.S.W.E.R. security team began grabbing and destroying the counter-protester's signs, and aggressively shoving counter-protesters. A Johnny P News reporter was assaulted while trying to capture the event on camera. The reporter was struck in the head and his camera knocked to the ground and then kicked by a man standing with the International A.N.S.W.E.R. security personnel. The assailant refused to give his name or answer any questions.
All of the International A.N.S.W.E.R. personnel at the scene refused comment.
Police soon appeared and insisted all of the counter-protesters leave the immediate area.
Members of the counter-protest group began saying that a woman 5-months pregnant with the counter-protesters was injured in the scuffle. Police at the scene however, would not allow access to the area where she was reportedly receiving treatment.
Approximately 60 counter-protesters were on hand during the altercation. U.S. Park Police unofficially estimated the protesters attendance at 50,000.
I get it, Bob.
No one that I can read, including me, has criticized the DCC or the rally...
I guess it depends on one's definition of criticism. "Worried comments" and "concern" about a group (the DC Chapter - for some reason called "DCC" by you)
Instead of reasoned opposing opinions I get hissy responses on unrelated media issues and filthy comments.
What's hissy about showing you what you apparently aren't finding when you do a "DCC" search? Hissy might be if I called you dopey names or cussed you out or belittled or made fun of you or your work in some other way. I'm correcting the record, Bob.
Step away from the keyboard...
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| Posted by Bob J to basil On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 11:49 PM EDT #157 of 238 ^ As we have here in LA. But, there is a difference between holding a counter rally to offer a counter argument to their message, and planning to allow protestors from each side to get up close and personal with each other. The former is strategic, the latter insane. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to kristinn On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 10:41 PM EDT #141 of 238 ^ This discussion is going no where. Nobody personally attacked you or members of the DCC or your event. We were having a general discussion about the threat and implications of violence after someone reported a pregnant woman was pushed to the ground today. That information turned out to be somewhat inaccurate. The discussion was good and I believe beneficial. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to EternalVigilance On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 10:32 PM EDT #137 of 238 ^ Tom, I don't want to get into a discussion about whether the event today was successful or not, how would I know? I wasn't there when they set their goals and yardstick by which they would estimate their success at achieving them. For all I know the only goal was to counter the ANSWER crowd and get in their face. If that was it, they succeeded and I congratulate them! Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to kristinn On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 10:26 PM EDT #135 of 238 ^ Ease up there a little Tex. I saw a couple references to the PW March here on FR and their website had the same location and time as your event. Seems like a reasonable conclusion and if I was wrong, I apologize. As far as the violence issue, a post was put up (I think your posting to it) that indicated people were hurt at your event today. Once again, subsequent discussion on the issue would not seem unreasonable either. It was made clear several times the DCC has a good record handling this issue so I don't know why your getting defensive about it. My comment about sitting on the sidelines was directed at you. Might as well be to everyone. I do more in one week than you do in a month but if I don't attend your event, I'm sitting on the sidelines. Way to go Warlord. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to EternalVigilance On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 10:15 PM EDT #131 of 238 ^ I think so to and thanks for putting on the rally in Iowa! BTW - I'm not trying to disparage the DCC efforts. I have concerns about the violence issue and think sometimes events and programs don't establish measureable goals to know if they are successful or not. If you don't know what success looks like, how will we know if we have succeeded? Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to EternalVigilance On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 9:42 PM EDT #122 of 238 ^ In my opinion, right now all our battles should start with the media. When we stage rallies, it's success should be determined by how successful we were in getting our message into the media. Take the Rally for America for example. We escewed a large national event and instead concentrated on having hundreds of rallies in towns all across the country. The major media ignored us but we did well with the local media and people watch the local news as well as Dan Rather. Second, we had a tremendous opportunity to make impressions on the people driving by. I believe there was over 200 events during March (not all these were FReeper originated). How many people saw that message at each one? 5000? Using that figure we had the opportunity to influence over 1,000,000 people. Coupled with the people attending and good local coverage and that number probably goes up by a factor of ten or twenty. I think this propgram was well planned and executed and obtained the goals and results that were intended. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to Little Bill On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 9:30 PM EDT #119 of 238 ^ I've always believed it to be a war. If we do not know and understand who our real enemy actually is (behind the curtain) and plan accordingly, we end up shadow boxing and gaining nothing but minor victories and short term gain. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to EternalVigilance On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 9:25 PM EDT #117 of 238 ^ We can't afford to fight all battles, particularly the ones that offer little in return. Every war must be waged knowing one has finite resources and they must be applied when and where they are going to be most effective. As far as the issues we agree on, great. For the ones we don't, I'm going to keep on trying! Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to kristinn On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 9:21 PM EDT #115 of 238 ^ The DCC's record has been good in this respect, but several counter events mentioned pushing and shoving and this is how melee's start. In your posts prior to the event you mentioned a cosponsorship with PW that included a march to a corner that would put you in direct contact with the ANSWER marchers. I'm sure you can understand that had some alarmed. It's your choice to sit on the sidelines, but we'll keep taking them on--peaceably and legally. Let me make sure I understand this comment. Anyone who didn't attend your event is "sitting on the sidelines"? If this is what you meant, your comment is insulting and belittles the hundreds if not thousands of FReepers who do their part everyday the best way they can, some in big ways, some in small, but all contributing. I think you should apologize to them. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 111 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to Little Bill On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 8:40 PM EDT #106 of 238 ^ Bill, I have been fighting this war of strategy for five years, since the March for Justice. One of the problems we have is we do not recognize who are enemy really is. Our fight isn't with ANSWER. Every time we knock a few of them out ten more show up to take their place. Our enemy isn't the DNC, that's mostly politics and if they were to go away there would be another party formed to take their place. Our fight is for the hearts and souls of Americans and our enemy is the established liberal institutions that propagandize and pollute the minds of good intentioned people. We don't lose because our beliefs are not sound, we lose because our enemy controls 80% of the means of information dissemination in this country. People don't vote for liberals because libs are right, it's because they don't know any better. They get indoctrinated at an early age into believing in socialist fairness and then are fed a daily dose of disinformation to sustain those beliefs. When given a fair playing field and an ability to help Americans understand the reasons for our positions we win four times out of five. Our enemy is institutions like the liberal controlled media, Hollywood, higher education, CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS and CNN. It's lefty institutions, organizations and Foundations that provide funding, resources and moral support. We fiddle with these bungholes like ANSWER while conservatism burns around us. Take away their voice and funding and you take away their ability to wage battle. Everything else is just window dressing and feel good stuff to make us beleive we are accomplishing something. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 97 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to bvw On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 8:13 PM EDT #94 of 238 ^ We're talking about two different things. I agree with you that it's okay when people knowingly take on these risks. But, they should assume the risk themselves and not encourage innocent people to attend just to boost their crowd numbers. Nor should they put the entire movement (or FR) at risk. If a group of men made the decision to wade into them and get a little what fer, that's their decision, heck , I might even join them. As far as Protest Warrior, I think they knew full well what was at stake, but I still got problem with that pregnant women. What was she doing there? Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to At _War_With_Liberals On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 8:08 PM EDT #92 of 238 ^ I am just trying to enjoy the positive posts on the rally. Then someone should put up a thread about that. This thread was about possible injuries to participants. You are bringing me down with these 'what if you lost an eye' hypotheticals. A pregnant women was pushed to the ground. Then you are telling people that were not there not to be martyrs. Heck, I thought you were there. So you're telling people it's okay to butt heads with the insane and then you don't even show up yourself? There is nothing wrong with being aggressive to a point, especially when the opposition are communist thugs.... But able bodied men? They should not plan their actions to appease the commies. Bring it on! That's because you don't know who your enemy really is, nor a plan to achieve success in our battle with the left. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to At _War_With_Liberals On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:52 PM EDT #83 of 238 ^ No seriously, what would you say? "Sorry. We knew it might get ugly and I guees your number came up." Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to EternalVigilance On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:49 PM EDT #81 of 238 ^ Thanks for the comments. I assume I will become persona non grata soon on this thread. I've made my statements and now it it's probably best if a move on. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to At _War_With_Liberals On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:47 PM EDT #80 of 238 ^ Stop whining already. I see. And what would be your response to a young lady who just got a bottle upside her head? Put some ice on it? Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to bvw On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:44 PM EDT #79 of 238 ^ Quit trying to change the subject. It's not a matter of who's at fault, whoever throws the punch is at fault. But if you put people in a situation where you know they may get smacked, don't be surprised and play the martyr when it happens. The public safety of obvious conservatives and Republicans ends when there's a liberal or Democrat rally in proximity. Thank you for agreeing with me. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to norton On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:39 PM EDT #77 of 238 ^ Some people aren't aware of that, especially if it is their first rally. I've been in the middle of what turned out to be a counter protest, and it wasn't safe. Our small group quickly got surrounded while the police were intent on protecting Bush. The more aggressive literally got in our face and started pushing objects at us. One FReeper got a smack in the mouth. It could easily have turned very ugly. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to Ragtime Cowgirl On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:34 PM EDT #72 of 238 ^ These organizations might have decided not to attend due to legal issues. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to EternalVigilance On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:23 PM EDT #64 of 238 ^ There have been previous counter demonstrations where the participants we're urged to "bring the family and have a picnic!". Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to bvw On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:19 PM EDT #56 of 238 ^ You're taking a similar line of argument Ed Rendell gave, when he siggested that the union thugs in Philly did what was right and proper in beating up the diminutive Don Adams and his sister, Terri. Baloney. It appeared the rally itself was covered, but the march down to meet the ANSWER people was crazy. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to norton On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:16 PM EDT #51 of 238 ^ I do not agree that 'we' (I was not there) should go out of our way to avoid confrontation - it's part of the game and part of the risk. Then go ahead and knock yourself out. Just don't ask children, mothers, fathers and pregant women to join you. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to YourAdHere On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:13 PM EDT #47 of 238 ^ Been down that road several times...ain't going to happen. Once the decision is made to create an event, we've decided to concentrate on larger numbers of smaller rallies close to where people live...and promote it to the local press (See "Rally for America"). The national press will almost always ignore us. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to AntiJen On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:11 PM EDT #43 of 238 ^ BTW - I understand the rally had appropriate police presence, I was more concerned with things being thrown at them, like bottles, that the police might not be able to control. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to AntiJen On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:09 PM EDT #40 of 238 ^ True, it looks like the PW waded into the kooks outside their permit area. However, this was a cosponsorship, any downside will be felt by all. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to FreedomPoster On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:07 PM EDT #38 of 238 ^ Thes people are nutz. There are ways for us to get our message out without confronting them. I see not practical reason to do this other than to let off steam. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to YourAdHere On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 7:03 PM EDT #34 of 238 ^ So, it was people attending the rally, but not specifically FReepers from the DCC or this board? Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to YourAdHere On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 6:54 PM EDT #26 of 237 ^ It looks like the Protest Warrior contingent got the worst of it. As said, I hope no one was injured, expecially FReepers. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies |
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| Watching the American haters, er peace protestors on C-Span... ^ Posted by Bob J to Hillarys Gate Cult On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 2:41 PM EDT #817 of 892 ^ To be fair, CSPAN has covered some of our rallies since we got 5k to the March for Justice, but, they aren't going to cover anything with only a hundred people or so. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 801 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to Az Joe On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 2:26 PM EDT #728 of 892 ^ Don't know, I thought they would be in the crowd, but there was a plan for both sides to march...somewhere. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 719 | View Replies |
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| Posted by Bob J to Az Joe On News/Activism ^ 10/25/2003 2:19 PM EDT #671 of 892 ^ I'd say 5-10,000..a quarter of what they predicted as usual. Then again the DCC said 1000 and they'll probably get 200-300. Post Reply | Private Reply | To 660 | View Replies |
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I bet that any presidential candidate would not want his name associated in any way whatsoever with what went on yesterday.
Except Lyndon LaRouche maybe.
That is EXACTLY how they are labeling them in the media. Can you imagine? They are not even part of humanity for the most part! :-)
At the parade site, we were well protected. The police were in force. I walked the streets, among the ANSWER people groups, to get to the parade site, (dressed with my flag scarf, flag pins, buttons, Pro-Bush stickers and carrying my poster) ---- and never felt danger. Of course I never met any of the ANSWER security, either. The 'anti' people are obnoxious, but for the most part harmless. They were concerned with their own image and ignored me.
As far as how successful were we in getting our message to the media? Others have answered that quite well. But there is also the opportunity of direct contact with the media, when you are on hand during these rallies. I was able to get my thoughts out on why I was there --- both at the rally and at Pershing Park. Where else or when would I ever have a chance to get the undivided attention of a reporter/photographer as I did, and spout off, answering their leading questions with my own thoughts. Not at home certainly.
How effective were our small numbers? Not all people in DC were down at the ANSWER rally. Many walked by our gathering, stopped and listened to the various speakers, before they moved on. You should have seen how many stopped when Curtis Sliwa had the mike!! We were a distance from the road, so couldn't see any thumbs-up from passing cars, but we could hear the deep-long honks from trucks - many of them.
How effective was ANSWER? Those who were curious, that lined the sidewalks, saw the same spectacles as I did. Sure, there were little families, and fine people who disliked war, who were marchers, but for the most part, anyone who had an agenda was there, and their appearance and actions did nothing to bring approval of ANSWER to regular American people.
As 'A Great Per' said, we laughed till we almost p**d our pants. One group was funnier/more obnoxious/more outrageous that the other. All losers. We were a good alternative.
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