One of *those* topics. Twofer topic.
Posted on 05/17/2025 9:48:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
The Greek alphabet might be centuries older than once thought, according to a statement released by the University of Leiden. Scholars theorize that the script emerged around the eighth century b.c., after the ancient Greeks adapted the older Phoenician alphabet -- which was composed of only consonants and no vowels -- to fit their own needs. This period in Greek history was the purported time of the poet Homer, who composed the Iliad and the Odyssey. However, University of Leiden classicist Willemijn Waal has recently suggested the Greek written language appears on pottery earlier than that, and likely dates back to the ninth or even tenth century b.c. Alphabetic scripts written on perishable material such as wood or papyrus may be even older, but have failed to survive in the archaeological record. If the Greek alphabet did exist at this early date, it means that there was no 400-year-long 'Dark Age' without alphabetic writing, as some archaeologists currently believe. "The idea that both the Greek alphabet and Homer date from the eighth century b.c. has been around for almost a hundred years and is widely accepted," Waal said. "I am now questioning this knowledge, and that will undoubtedly meet with some resistance. But new insights are also precisely what makes science fun; you never stop learning."
(Excerpt) Read more at archaeology.org ...
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One of *those* topics. Twofer topic.
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I read that the Greeks may have had their origins as Canaanites.
“The Phoenician alphabet — which was composed of only consonants and no vowels...”
Now how would that sound?
CN THS B RD?
It was to save time when writing things, but the vowels were still understood to be there.
“Save time”?
How would they know that they were saving time if they had never before written vowels? Doesn’t make sense.
I think they were aware. Papyrus or stone were expensive mediums and leaving agreed upon letters, that does not abandon understanding, would make sense to them. It saves time and money.
A modern version would be what we do when we leave letters out as part of a puzzle.
Clicks
I’ve heard of other written languages in which the vowels were assumed. Sort of like how most words written in English are not phonetically spelled, and you must assume the correct pronunciation.
Phoenician, Hebrew are not alphabets but abjads. Semitic languages (e.g., Phoenician, Hebrew) have a root-based morphology where words are built from consonant roots (e.g., k-t-b for “write”). Vowels often indicate grammatical variations (tense, number, etc.) rather than core meaning. Consonants carried the primary semantic weight, so writing systems prioritized them.
The Phoenician alphabet evolved from Proto-Sinaitic scripts, which were influenced by Egyptian hieroglyphs. These earlier systems often represented consonants or syllables, and the abjad model built on this tradition. Early writing systems, like cuneiform and hieroglyphs, were complex and labor-intensive.
Omitting vowels reduced the number of symbols needed, making the system more efficient for scribes and traders, as the Phoenicians had only 22 characters.
Fluent speakers of Semitic languages could infer vowels from context and their understanding of grammar and vocabulary.
Sentence structure and surrounding words provided hints about vowel placement. Such as verb or noun placement.
I tried learning Hebrew once but gave up and retreated to the familiarity of Indo European languages. My mind could not wrap around Semitic languages.
Same as the Semitic and Egyptian languages. Vowels were implied.
You post the BEST THINGS ; Thank You : May God bless you. And THANK YOU for helping us to consider new ideas. John 3:16
Nt by m. nly by vry smrt ppl.
Yes, this can be read, unless it is red.
Indonesian is my second language and I live in Indonesia. Many people here write w/o vowels in their text messages. I have a lot of trouble figuring out what is being texted.
“Chon”? Who is Chon?
Chon...of Dub.
Tells you right there...
mark
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