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Atlantis & Great Meteor Seamounts / Vertical Tectonism | Randall Carlson | Kosmographia Clips 007.5
YouTube ^ | Kosmographia Clips

Posted on 12/27/2022 1:22:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv

Atlantis & Great Meteor Seamounts / Vertical Tectonism
Randall Carlson | Kosmographia Clips 007.5
The Randall Carlson | 164K subscribers | 72,436 views | September 20, 2022
Atlantis & Great Meteor Seamounts / Vertical Tectonism | Randall Carlson | Kosmographia Clips 007.5 | The Randall Carlson | 164K subscribers | 72,436 views | September 20, 2022

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Astronomy; Science
KEYWORDS: astronomy; atlantis; catastrophism; critias; kosmographia; randallcarlson; science; timaeus
Check out Randall's - Plato's Atlantis "Back to the Source" VoD presentation on howtube: Two 3-hour lectures available On Demand for $33 with your new Free howtube account.

This clip is extracted from Episode 007:

Kosmographia Episode 007 / Atlantis Mystery - Evidence Revealed (pt5), from 9/09/19. RC joins the Snake Bros - Kyle and Russ, Normal Guy Mike, and GeocosmicREX admin Bradley continue the exploration for evidence along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. (Includes bonus content)

Topo colorization showing Mid-Atlantic Ridge and faults
Seamounts almost 10 miles across
Bathymetric sketch from Bruce Heezen book "The Face of the Deep"
Neptune's Trident the pointed island tops before shearing?
J. Honnorez et al. in Earth and Planetary Science Letters (1975) "Mesozoic Limestone from… MAR?"
Can’t explain limestone and granitic detritus from dredging of offset zone along MAR
Suggests granitic block (capped by Limestone) left behind when rift zone spread - "must have undergone large vertical movements"
Anonymous editorial in New Scientist (1975) confirms oceanographers have found “a sunken block of continent” in mid-Atlantic, evidence that it had emersed
E. Bonatti et al. in Earth and Planetary Science Letters (1977) "…Crustal emersion and subsidence…"
"Vertical tectonism of a transverse crustal block" showing it was at or above sea level recently

1 posted on 12/27/2022 1:22:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv
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0:15okay well here's a here's a report now
0:17this appeared in nature the the british
0:20the prestigious british journal of
0:22science in 1974 the same year as the one
0:25we were just floating from
0:27this is deep drilling
0:30in an active geothermal area in the
0:35so in 1972 geoscientists from dalhousie
0:39university in lamont doherty geological
0:42observatory initiated a deep drilling
0:44program into the oceanic crust
0:47our second borehole in 1973 was located
0:50on the island of saul mcgill in the
0:54and an initial report is presented here
0:57of the
0:58981 meters
1:00penetration of a complex sequence of
1:03sub-aerial and submarine lavas
1:07pyroclastics and volcanogenic
1:12we've defined the term subaerial means
1:14in the atmosphere submarine below the
1:16water pyroclastics are solid pieces of
1:20material that are part of a volcanic
1:23eruption like you've heard of a
1:25pyroclastic flow and you have a major
1:28like an explosive eruption and you have
1:30this big almost like tidal wave of of
1:33material sweeping down the sides of the
1:35mountains that are
1:36you know so deadly that's that's the
1:38pyroclastic flow
1:40volcanogenic simply means
1:43having its genesis in a volcanic
1:45eruption right
1:47what they did they had 981 meters of
1:51core they brought up and what they found
1:52was a complex sequence of atmospheric
1:55and submarine lavas pyroclastic material
1:58and volcanogenic sediments
2:01i'll skip a couple here because it's not
2:03that directly relevant but
2:05get right here to the crux of it a
2:07surprising result of our experiment
2:11has been the depth at which submarine
2:13deposits were encountered
2:17sub-aerial or shallow marine conditions
2:20now this is both atmospheric and
2:23shallow marine meaning less than
2:25probably 100 or 200 feet maybe 10 20 30
2:28feet you know
2:29just along the shoreline right so they
2:31found sub-aerial or shallow marine
2:34conditions are found
2:36786 meters below present sea level
2:40and indicate substantial subsidence of
2:44the island
2:47so 2580
2:50feet that's half a mile
2:52that's half of half a freaking mile okay
2:56man it goes on we're we're just we're
2:58just barely getting into this but
3:00it's interesting that we can go back uh
3:05atlantis from the geological point of
3:07in light of what is known today
3:10about the ocean floors now this is
3:12written in
3:16nineteen 78
3:21now just given what we what we already
3:23have learned in these podcasts
3:25think about this what they're saying
3:27here in light of what is known today
3:28about the ocean floors
3:30we can definitely rule out the
3:32possibility of a sunken mandela land
3:34mass of any substantial size in the
3:38or for that matter in any other ocean
3:44lies and then nowhere in the ocean basis
3:49is there any sign of a large mass of
3:51continental type crust which could
3:53represent a submerged continent
4:00time out
4:01i agree with that right and from what
4:03you guys now know you would be agreeing
4:05with that too yeah there's there's but
4:07let's define what we mean by large well
4:09they're saying a submerged continent
4:13well the smallest continent on earth is
4:15australia so it's got to be at least as
4:17big as australia or bigger to fit the
4:19definition of a continent but nowhere
4:22was anybody ever talking about that
4:23except in the woo-woo plato never talked
4:26about a continent
4:29right that's right he talked about
4:36so then with an atlantic site ruled out
4:39is physically impossible all arguments
4:41based on racial linguistic or other
4:43cultural similarities on both sides of
4:46the ocean
4:47which would include the rest of ignatius
4:49donnelly's 13 propositions
4:52must collapse
4:54either they are not real similarities at
4:56all or they must be explained in other
4:58including mere coincidence
5:02yeah and so that was considered to be
5:05the final word on the map
5:07in 1978 and and what you see is post
5:12late 1970s
5:14everybody starts going everywhere else
5:15and saying oh here i found atlantis it's
5:18over here yeah i found atlantis over
5:20here and here's why this guy is wrong
5:21but here's why i'm right and here's how
5:24we have to figure that plato uh
5:27you know plato was mistaken about this
5:29detail or that detail and what he really
5:31meant was
5:32this that supports where i think
5:34atlantis was now that's not to say that
5:37some of the things that these are
5:39talking about aren't interesting because
5:40a lot of them really are
5:42but then to to try to say well this is
5:44atlantis the question in my mind has
5:47always been how far can we deviate from
5:49plato's account and still legitimately
5:51call it atlantis
5:54yeah none
5:56well at this point at this point we're
5:59we're gonna have to come back to plato
6:00because obviously we've not covered a
6:02lot of his details but with this
6:04background in this context once we go
6:06back and we start looking at sort of his
6:07details i think we'll have a more
6:09insight um
6:12into the
6:14into the whole story of of atlantis
6:17and um
6:21so yeah i think did we quote from the
6:23sunken kingdom the atlantis mystery
6:27i don't know
6:28the possibility of a real atlantis in
6:30the terms that plato described it has
6:32long gone now that that's his working
6:35premium this came out in mind this was a
6:36book in 1996.
6:40yeah he says nearly 2 400 years ago the
6:43greek philosopher plato posed a riddle
6:44which is baffled scholars ever since was
6:47the story of the lost continent of
6:48atlantis a complete fabrication or did
6:50some historical reality lie behind it
6:53the possibility of a real atlantis in
6:56the terms that plato described it has
6:58long gone
6:59to which i would go oh really
7:03he also said continent there
7:05yeah and then for all its romantic
7:08appeal the idea of a prehistoric super
7:11civilization on an atlantic continent
7:14is vanishingly unlike
7:17but again
7:18in science you got to define your terms
7:20so i would ask what the hell do you mean
7:22by super civilization yeah let's let's
7:26define that and then
7:27i think we can reject the use of the
7:29term continent
7:31because that was not
7:33plato's term i mean plato
7:35terms were the terms he used were
7:37well-known returns for ireland or
7:40okay let's go on we'll talk about these
7:42sea mounts we introduced seamounts last
7:45episode right
7:47right over here cursor is over the
7:49pillars of hercules which is the straits
7:51of gibraltar inside we have the
7:54mediterranean outside we have
7:56the atlantic ocean and if we follow this
7:59dotted line here this is the fracture
8:02zone right so we got the african plate
8:05down here we've got the eurasian place
8:06here in the north american plate over
8:08here this dashed line represents the the
8:11crack if you will between
8:13the eurasian plate and the african plate
8:16and it comes over here and then it it
8:18transects it it cuts into this
8:21this elevated region on the ocean floor
8:24and it cuts right across this and then
8:26it meets
8:27the the suture zone or the fracture line
8:31these two plates in the north american
8:33plate and so what we have here is a
8:34triple plate junction
8:37obviously would be and and just yeah
8:40logically would be a place a zone where
8:42you would think there would be the most
8:44flexibility in terms of isostatic
8:49um yeah and then we've got you can see
8:52there these little dots i'll pull up
8:54some better maps and but these are the
8:57which are actually just mountain tops
8:59that who whose bases are sitting in this
9:03if you want to call it a micro continent
9:06right here
9:07and then south of there you've got these
9:09cluster of sea mounts right here and i
9:12believe yes there we go so
9:14they're named here's here's the azores
9:17islands and then we've got
9:19curiously named the atlantis c mount
9:24plato c mount right here
9:27great meteor c mount another interesting
9:30connection and coincidence
9:32make great meteor sea mount here and
9:35then the cruiser seamount right here
9:38so we've got these seamounts now let's
9:40let's see what we learned about
9:43i'm going to skip a couple of things
9:45here and here's a section looking at the
9:47great meteor sea mount
9:49an east west cross section
9:51and you can see here
9:54the vertical scale is exaggerated to
9:57make it more prominent it isn't quite
10:00dramatic coming up off of the ocean
10:03but that's what it looks like in profile
10:06and here would be a bathymetric map of
10:10right and the important thing to note
10:13here is the flat sump
10:15of it
10:16we'll go through here and here's the
10:18atlantis seamount
10:20okay so here we have a flat top again
10:26we have
10:27uh yeah so here's the profile of the
10:29submerged c map and here's the contour
10:33the map showing the contours
10:35and the depths of these things
10:37and this is a contour interval okay so
10:40this is a this is in fabrics so 500
10:43fathoms would be 3 000 feet roughly it's
10:45a fabulous six feet
10:47yeah and here over here in this in this
10:49one you can see the depth of the top of
10:51the thing appears at about 400 roughly
10:54400 fathoms
10:57and here's the atlantic
10:59atlanta seamount which got changed to
11:01the atlantic sea mount
11:04because you wouldn't want to have
11:05anybody thinking that
11:08they meant to imply that this was
11:11can't have
11:12that how big are those sea mounts you
11:15know you would
11:17well okay the the tops of those plateaus
11:20what's the width
11:22what's what's what's the okay right here
11:24this is uh 34 degrees north right here
11:28and this is 34 degrees 10 minutes we
11:31could figure out from that wouldn't be
11:32hard to do um
11:34let's see let's take a look right here
11:36well okay so
11:39there are no distance measurements here
11:40that i can tell will that distance
11:42change as you go further and further
11:44north right
11:45like 10 minutes of degrees will it it'll
11:48change won't it yeah but for rough
11:51purposes um
11:53it's 20 let's see okay so we're looking
11:57about one one mile per
12:00per minute here at this latitude
12:0210 10 miles here that's a decent sized
12:05mountain yeah
12:08or plateau if it's if it's shaved off it
12:10plateaus plateau yeah yeah
12:14and here they show up pretty clearly on
12:15on this map of course so the question is
12:18with all these flat top mountains what
12:21made them flat-topped
12:23ah what made them play see that's the
12:25question right
12:27um i mean and they're all flat topped at
12:29pretty much the same height
12:32okay well here's how you explain it and
12:35we can actually pull up some scientific
12:37research on this
12:38you've got mountain peak
12:40above the ocean and now you have a
12:42highly turbulent erosive ocean
12:46that is basically you have to have a a
12:48means of shearing off
12:50the tops of these mountains yeah
12:53and because yeah because they're they're
12:55they're basically at the same level that
12:57shows you that this shearing force was
12:59applied in a plane
13:01it wasn't differential it was in a plane
13:04what i've got up here now is a
13:05bathymetric sketch of atlantis cruiser
13:08and great meteor sea mounts
13:10great meteor
13:11uh cruiser atlantis is over here
13:14reproduced from the face of the deep by
13:16heathen and hollister 1971 bruce eason
13:20by the way was one of the founding
13:21fathers of marine geology and
13:24tragically he died in a submersible
13:27accident down doing research
13:31the caption for this image reads ancient
13:35sunken islands of the eastern atlantic
13:38and here's here they are
13:40showing how the the tops have been
13:42sheared off
13:45and here's what they would have looked
13:47before shearing
13:49oh yeah
13:50they would have been prominent
13:52sharp mountain peaks rising up out of
13:54the ocean
13:57so yeah you can look up neptune's
13:59trident and you'll find some interesting
14:00news so here we go you can see very
14:03clearly the
14:04the sutures
14:06you can see the stretch marks
14:08emanating laterally from the sutures
14:11so i'm going to stop share for the
14:14give people a chance to digest all right
14:16so let's get back to
14:18um some of the science here this is from
14:21uh honors if i'm pronouncing that right
14:24j honores and
14:26a group of others who published uh in
14:29earth and planetary science letters
14:31an article entitled mesozoic limestone
14:34from the bema
14:36offset zone mid-atlantic ridge now this
14:38is a lo this is south of the azores but
14:40the same principle applies to this idea
14:42of vertical movement along along the
14:45mid-atlantic bridge right
14:47so in an earlier paper bonafti and
14:50honors report
14:52dredging a shallow water limestone from
14:55the summit of a transverse ridge within
14:58the offset zone of the mid-atlantic
15:00ridge the limestone was reported to
15:03contain detrital grains of quartz
15:05orthoclase and microclimate indicating
15:09that you don't need to know what that is
15:10for right now although what you need to
15:12know is that it indicates that there was
15:14a nearby source of granitic detritus
15:18which was available during its
15:22and honors have unsuccessfully attempted
15:24to explain their findings of granitic
15:27material and shallow water limestones on
15:30the basis of the present
15:33or recent geographical configuration of
15:37the equatorial atlantic
15:41they suggested that the limestone and
15:43its granitic mineral grains must have
15:45been deposited sometime during the
15:48which of course brings us back into the
15:50age of the dinosaurs right we have to go
15:52back at least 66 million years yeah
15:55soon after the opening of the atlantic
15:59well and good within a narrow and
16:03proto-atlantic basin
16:05if bonadi and honores interpretation is
16:09it would require that the crustal block
16:12capped by the limestone
16:14was left behind
16:16during the spreading of the atlantic
16:20this possibility would have important
16:24i'm going to skip over some of the
16:25really technical stuff but they're
16:27looking at the uh evidence of the oxygen
16:31isotope ratios and the carbon ratios
16:33carbon 12 and carbon 13 oxygen 16 and
16:36oxygen 18
16:38uh and found that they have strongly
16:40negative values what does that mean well
16:42it means that in both cases it's a clear
16:45indication of sub-aerial
16:49only through the action of meteoritic
16:50water which means rainfall
16:53enriched in light carbon while passing
16:55through a soil zone can be can be
16:57observed isotopic values to explain so
16:59in other words
17:01you're talking about
17:02something that's above the surface of
17:03the ocean there's soil there right right
17:07soil yeah
17:09okay dirty
17:11dirt yes dirt
17:15the conclusions
17:17we derived from this study appeared to
17:19confirm and extend the results obtained
17:23by bernanke and honores as follows
17:26the components of the limestone
17:28constitute homogeneous assemblage
17:31characteristic of a shallow water
17:34carbonate platform depositional
17:37the crustal block capped by the
17:41must have undergone must must have
17:45large vertical movements
17:48including episodes of immersion
17:51immersion coming out like immersion
17:54would be
17:54going into the water immersion coming
17:56out of the water right large vertical
17:59movements where where these
18:02these blocks are coming up out of the
18:05if crustal spreading took place in this
18:08at rates of about 1.2 centimeters per
18:11year the block capped by the limestone
18:13apparently did not move with the
18:16spreading floor
18:18we're going to go
18:22so then we have a a a
18:25an editorial comment on this work that
18:27i'm just quoting from this appeared in
18:30the new scientist 1975 volume 66 number
18:34952 page 504
18:36although they make no such fanciful
18:39claim from their results
18:41to have discovered the mythical
18:43mid-atlantic landmass of course of
18:47yeah they would they would not even
18:49consider making such a fanciful claim
18:52right although they make no such
18:53fanciful claim from the results to have
18:55discovered the mythical mid-atlantic
18:56land mass an international group of
18:58oceanographers has now convincingly
19:01confirmed preliminary findings that a
19:04sunken block of continent lies in the
19:07middle of the friggin atlantic ocean
19:13and i think that is the first documented
19:15use of the term friggin
19:18in the scientific literature
19:22yeah although they make no claims that
19:24this was atlantis they basically found
19:29four years ago
19:31two university my my aunt university of
19:34miami workers jayanarez and ibanati
19:36first reported the recovery of shallow
19:39water limestone fragments from the vemma
19:41fracture zone this limestone contained
19:44minerals indicative of a nearby granitic
19:46source unlikely to occur on the ocean
19:51the limestones include traces of shallow
19:53water fossils foraminifera green algae
19:56bits of gastropods and crab coprolites
19:59implying formation in water
20:02in one instance
20:04less than 30 meters deep
20:06about 100 feet
20:08furthermore the limestones have been
20:09recrystallized from a high to low
20:11magnesium form of calcite
20:13which is the thing that i was referring
20:15to earlier that i left out the technical
20:17details oxygen and carbon isotope ratios
20:20prove conclusively that this process
20:22must have taken place sub aerially
20:26so i mean there we go um
20:29then two years later ibanati and others
20:33and another group of oceanographers and
20:35marine geologists published yet another
20:38entitled neogene crustal emotion and and
20:41subsidence at the romance fracture zone
20:44equatorial atlantic
20:47according to plate tectonic theory the
20:48motions of lithospheric plates between
20:51an accretionary boundary or a spreading
20:54center and a consumptive boundary or a
20:58subduction zone right are essentially
21:02taking place on the outer shell of the
21:06some exceptions to this model appear to
21:09in the vicinity of major oceanic
21:12fracture zones
21:16yeah that was my my thought exactly
21:22in this paper we presented example of
21:24vertical tectonism
21:27of a transverse crustal block located on
21:30the north side of the romance fracture
21:32zone we demonstrated that the summit of
21:35this block was at or above sea level
21:39during the late cenozoic which
21:42geologically speaking was was yesterday
21:44so what they what their conclusion is is
21:47that it has been suggested that um
21:49the transverse morphology yeah bonadi
21:52called attention to the significance of
21:54prominent east-west transverse ridges
21:58i will do a quick screen share here
22:01because they show up really nice on this
22:06map right here and get back to these uh
22:10transverse ridges
22:12and that's these east-west
22:15which i like in
22:16last episode too basically earth stretch
22:20so that's what he's what he's talking
22:21about here but he called attention to
22:24the significance of prominent east-west
22:26transverse ridges
22:28some shown already by heazen and others
22:30which run parallel to the equatorial
22:33atlantic fracture zones it has been
22:36suggested that such transverse
22:38morphology associated with fracture
22:41zones could not have been produced
22:43solely by crustal spreading
22:46from axial segments of the mid-atlantic
22:50but that vertical
22:53tectonic motions
22:55exceeding those predicted by a simple
22:58plate tectonic model
23:00must have operated
23:04right there those what i'm calling the
23:05stretch marks
23:07are are like the evidence what he's
23:08calling here that that their evidence
23:10that vertical tectonic motions exceeding
23:13those predicted by a simple plate
23:14tectonic model must have operated
23:18right so those those transverse ridges
23:20were made by massive vertical movements
23:22of that
23:23it makes sense too because it's
23:25like when you're looking at the map it
23:26looks flat but really it's curved
23:29like this
23:30so if it was going to be pushed out it
23:32would have to crack
23:34all along that yeah that main fissure
23:37because it's actually round yeah you
23:39know what i'm saying unless this is flat
23:41earth society over here
23:43it would you know on a flat surface it
23:46could rise up like this without having
23:48these cracks yeah running this way
23:51but because it's curved
23:54it's got a crack in both
23:56both axes yeah in order to expand
23:59outwards and yeah that's right yeah
24:01by enrico bernanke published in 1978
24:04also in earth and planetary science
24:06letters is entitled vertical vertical
24:09tectonism in
24:11oceanic fracture zones
24:13he says in this paper i will focus
24:15attention on another class of exceptions
24:17to the age depth of the oceanic crust
24:19relationship namely on anomalies
24:23associated with large oceanic fracture
24:25zones i will present examples from the
24:27atlantic and indian oceans which suggest
24:30strong vertical tectonizer tectonism
24:34to be characteristic of the large
24:37fracture zones a qualitative estimate of
24:40vertical motions of the crust at the
24:41romance fracture zone was made possible
24:43in one case by the recovery of dateable
24:46shallow water limestones from the summit
24:49of the transverse ridge which is
24:52about 3 200 feet below sea level
24:56on the north side of the romance valley
24:58these limestones were formed close to
25:02sea level about five million years ago
25:05but subsequently have undergone episodes
25:08of emersion
25:10in other words they've come up
25:12and been exposed to the atmosphere
25:17wow the data discussed in this paper
25:19indicate that get this intense
25:23vertical tectonism of upper mantle and
25:26crustal blocks occurs along the large
25:30oceanic fracture zones
25:32this vertical tectonism causes motions
25:35which exceed by far
25:38the small relative vertical motions of
25:40the type
25:41discussed recently in other words
25:44what they've discovered here in the 70s
25:46is that there has been this massive
25:48movement of the ocean floor concentrated
25:51along the oceanic fractures

2 posted on 12/27/2022 1:24:50 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: 75thOVI; Abathar; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AnalogReigns; AndrewC; aragorn; ...

3 posted on 12/27/2022 1:25:20 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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Randall Carlson Podcast Ep007 Atlantis Mystery - Evidence Revealed Pt5: MAR Granitic Block Confirmed
The Randall Carlson
164K subscribers
60,358 views Dec 19, 2019
Kosmographia Episode 007 / Atlantis Mystery - Evidence Revealed (pt5), from 9/09/19. RC joins the Snake Bros - Kyle and Russ, GCREX admin Bradley and Mystery-Man Mike continue the exploration for evidence along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. (Includes bonus content)

4 posted on 12/27/2022 1:28:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ll have to check this out later. Recently I’ve been looking into strange stuff about the Azores, which are right near the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Did you know there’s an ancient site on the Azores that matches pretty closely with the description of Calypso’s cave on the “mythical” isle of Ogygia from the Odyssey?

5 posted on 12/27/2022 1:32:17 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Ogygia was an ancient name for Egypt. Butler claimed that the Odyssey uses various sites on Sicily, and that it was written by a woman. I never have liked the Odyssey, and haven’t much cared for the Iliad either, but just from the translations I’ve had access to over the years, it’s clear they weren’t written by the same author (or authors). The Odyssey comes off as an ancient romance novel.

6 posted on 12/27/2022 1:47:26 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: Boogieman

Calypso’s Cave on Azores?

Calypso’s Cave on Gozo, Malta?

7 posted on 12/27/2022 1:51:27 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I always thought it was Malta. Or thereabouts.

8 posted on 12/27/2022 1:52:07 PM PST by Buttons12 ( Do you not think an Angel rides in the Whirlwind and directs this Storm?)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yes, the first link is good but he just mostly compiles stuff from previous authors that wrote on the idea of the Odyssey describing places in the Atlantic. And Malta is just not in the right area at all, since it’s far too close to where Ulysses starts off on the journey.

This is the cave I’m talking about:

It has natural springs with water channels cut into the rock of the cave floor, both of which are mentioned specifically in the description of Calypso’s cave. The author thinks it is merely a Phoenician worship site, and it may have been, but I think not many are considering that the Phoenicians may have just built temples on pre-existing holy sites that they were commemorating, just as the Christians did when they built their cathedrals on top of the pagan sites in Europe.

9 posted on 12/27/2022 2:16:00 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: SunkenCiv

“Ogygia was an ancient name for Egypt.”

But Egypt is not an island, and Ulysses visits Crete early on in his travels, which is right next to Egypt. So it makes no sense for him to get stranded on Ogygia in the mid-point of his journey after he left the area of Egypt heading west/northwest before being blown off course.

“The Odyssey comes off as an ancient romance novel.”

There’s a bit of that but it seems to me that there are veiled references to real places in it, but that the more “fantastic” places are ones that Greek sailors may have heard about, but probably never visited themselves.

10 posted on 12/27/2022 2:20:11 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
It's a work of fiction, so trying to find the "real" places is probably not going to be fruitful. One place given for Scylla and Charybdis is the Strait of Messina (off Sicily, iow), but they're mythical critters or what have you. Tourism is very old, and having a tourist trap / attraction was just as important in antiquity as it is now. I've heard tell that Stephen Foster was photographed a number of times in a number of towns, pointing to the one, the only, Old Mill Stream. :^)

11 posted on 12/27/2022 2:54:11 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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Timaeus by Plato
Translated by Benjamin Jowett

Critias by Plato
Translated by Benjamin Jowett

Key to Map of Possible Route of Odysseus
Graphic: Tim Severin, The Ulysses Voyage: sea search for the Odyssey (London 1987).
Text: adapted from Erich Lessing, The Voyages of Ulysses (Vienna 1965) and other sources

12 posted on 12/27/2022 2:59:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: Boogieman

And whoops, Ogyges was a king of Attic Greece, he even had a flood named after him. I’d remembered Ogygian Thebes, but it was Greek, just to be contrary.

13 posted on 12/27/2022 3:05:30 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv

There was this can of worms, see, and the sell by date was in an antique language, so it made sense to open it, and, well...

Redefining The Two Lands: Egypt, Greece, and Ogygian Thebes

Justin S Miller
This was a paper given at the 2015 Duke/UNC Chapel Hill Graduate Colloquium. It discusses the use of the word ‘ogygios’ within the Alexandrian corpus as a means of collapsing the geography of Boeotian Thebes with Egyptian Thebes.

14 posted on 12/27/2022 3:34:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: Boogieman
Thanks Boogieman. Additional:

15 posted on 12/27/2022 5:03:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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The rest of the Atlantis keyword, minus NASA's shuttle topics, minus some political topics, and minus Stargate and other Sci-fi topics, then edited some all-caps titles with this, and here are the results, sorted:

16 posted on 12/27/2022 5:40:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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17 posted on 12/27/2022 6:00:45 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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