Skip to comments.Atlantis & Great Meteor Seamounts / Vertical Tectonism | Randall Carlson | Kosmographia Clips 007.5
Posted on 12/27/2022 1:22:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv
Atlantis & Great Meteor Seamounts / Vertical Tectonism
Randall Carlson | Kosmographia Clips 007.5
The Randall Carlson | 164K subscribers | 72,436 views | September 20, 2022
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This clip is extracted from Episode 007: https://youtu.be/4Vh0GWqhMhY
Kosmographia Episode 007 / Atlantis Mystery - Evidence Revealed (pt5), from 9/09/19. RC joins the Snake Bros - Kyle and Russ, Normal Guy Mike, and GeocosmicREX admin Bradley continue the exploration for evidence along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. (Includes bonus content)
IN THIS CLIP:
Topo colorization showing Mid-Atlantic Ridge and faults
Seamounts almost 10 miles across
Bathymetric sketch from Bruce Heezen book "The Face of the Deep"
Neptune's Trident the pointed island tops before shearing?
J. Honnorez et al. in Earth and Planetary Science Letters (1975) "Mesozoic Limestone from… MAR?"
Can’t explain limestone and granitic detritus from dredging of offset zone along MAR
Suggests granitic block (capped by Limestone) left behind when rift zone spread - "must have undergone large vertical movements"
Anonymous editorial in New Scientist (1975) confirms oceanographers have found “a sunken block of continent” in mid-Atlantic, evidence that it had emersed
E. Bonatti et al. in Earth and Planetary Science Letters (1977) "…Crustal emersion and subsidence…"
"Vertical tectonism of a transverse crustal block" showing it was at or above sea level recently
Transcript 0:04 [Music] 0:15 okay well here's a here's a report now 0:17 this appeared in nature the the british 0:20 the prestigious british journal of 0:22 science in 1974 the same year as the one 0:25 we were just floating from 0:27 this is deep drilling 0:30 in an active geothermal area in the 0:34 azores 0:35 so in 1972 geoscientists from dalhousie 0:39 university in lamont doherty geological 0:42 observatory initiated a deep drilling 0:44 program into the oceanic crust 0:47 our second borehole in 1973 was located 0:50 on the island of saul mcgill in the 0:52 azores 0:54 and an initial report is presented here 0:57 of the 0:58 981 meters 1:00 penetration of a complex sequence of 1:03 sub-aerial and submarine lavas 1:07 pyroclastics and volcanogenic 1:11 sediments 1:12 we've defined the term subaerial means 1:14 in the atmosphere submarine below the 1:16 water pyroclastics are solid pieces of 1:20 material that are part of a volcanic 1:23 eruption like you've heard of a 1:25 pyroclastic flow and you have a major 1:28 like an explosive eruption and you have 1:30 this big almost like tidal wave of of 1:33 material sweeping down the sides of the 1:35 mountains that are 1:36 you know so deadly that's that's the 1:38 pyroclastic flow 1:40 volcanogenic simply means 1:43 having its genesis in a volcanic 1:45 eruption right 1:46 so 1:47 what they did they had 981 meters of 1:51 core they brought up and what they found 1:52 was a complex sequence of atmospheric 1:55 and submarine lavas pyroclastic material 1:58 and volcanogenic sediments 2:01 i'll skip a couple here because it's not 2:03 that directly relevant but 2:05 get right here to the crux of it a 2:07 surprising result of our experiment 2:11 has been the depth at which submarine 2:13 deposits were encountered 2:17 sub-aerial or shallow marine conditions 2:20 now this is both atmospheric and 2:23 shallow marine meaning less than 2:25 probably 100 or 200 feet maybe 10 20 30 2:28 feet you know 2:29 just along the shoreline right so they 2:31 found sub-aerial or shallow marine 2:34 conditions are found 2:36 786 meters below present sea level 2:40 and indicate substantial subsidence of 2:44 the island 2:45 so 2:46 duh 2:47 so 2580 2:50 feet that's half a mile 2:52 that's half of half a freaking mile okay 2:54 yeah 2:56 man it goes on we're we're just we're 2:58 just barely getting into this but 3:00 it's interesting that we can go back uh 3:04 to 3:05 atlantis from the geological point of 3:06 view 3:07 in light of what is known today 3:10 about the ocean floors now this is 3:12 written in 3:16 nineteen 78 3:19 okay 3:21 now just given what we what we already 3:23 have learned in these podcasts 3:25 think about this what they're saying 3:27 here in light of what is known today 3:28 about the ocean floors 3:30 we can definitely rule out the 3:32 possibility of a sunken mandela land 3:34 mass of any substantial size in the 3:36 atlantic 3:38 or for that matter in any other ocean 3:41 base 3:44 lies and then nowhere in the ocean basis 3:49 is there any sign of a large mass of 3:51 continental type crust which could 3:53 represent a submerged continent 3:57 wait 4:00 time out 4:01 i agree with that right and from what 4:03 you guys now know you would be agreeing 4:05 with that too yeah there's there's but 4:07 let's define what we mean by large well 4:09 they're saying a submerged continent 4:13 well the smallest continent on earth is 4:15 australia so it's got to be at least as 4:17 big as australia or bigger to fit the 4:19 definition of a continent but nowhere 4:22 was anybody ever talking about that 4:23 except in the woo-woo plato never talked 4:26 about a continent 4:29 right that's right he talked about 4:31 islands 4:34 yep 4:35 so 4:36 so then with an atlantic site ruled out 4:39 is physically impossible all arguments 4:41 based on racial linguistic or other 4:43 cultural similarities on both sides of 4:46 the ocean 4:47 which would include the rest of ignatius 4:49 donnelly's 13 propositions 4:52 must collapse 4:54 either they are not real similarities at 4:56 all or they must be explained in other 4:57 ways 4:58 including mere coincidence 5:02 yeah and so that was considered to be 5:05 the final word on the map 5:07 in 1978 and and what you see is post 5:12 late 1970s 5:14 everybody starts going everywhere else 5:15 and saying oh here i found atlantis it's 5:18 over here yeah i found atlantis over 5:20 here and here's why this guy is wrong 5:21 but here's why i'm right and here's how 5:24 we have to figure that plato uh 5:27 you know plato was mistaken about this 5:29 detail or that detail and what he really 5:31 meant was 5:32 this that supports where i think 5:34 atlantis was now that's not to say that 5:37 some of the things that these are 5:39 talking about aren't interesting because 5:40 a lot of them really are 5:42 but then to to try to say well this is 5:44 atlantis the question in my mind has 5:47 always been how far can we deviate from 5:49 plato's account and still legitimately 5:51 call it atlantis 5:54 yeah none 5:56 well at this point at this point we're 5:59 we're gonna have to come back to plato 6:00 because obviously we've not covered a 6:02 lot of his details but with this 6:04 background in this context once we go 6:06 back and we start looking at sort of his 6:07 details i think we'll have a more 6:09 insight um 6:12 into the 6:13 um 6:14 into the whole story of of atlantis 6:17 and um 6:21 so yeah i think did we quote from the 6:23 sunken kingdom the atlantis mystery 6:25 solved 6:27 i don't know 6:28 the possibility of a real atlantis in 6:30 the terms that plato described it has 6:32 long gone now that that's his working 6:35 premium this came out in mind this was a 6:36 book in 1996. 6:39 um 6:40 yeah he says nearly 2 400 years ago the 6:43 greek philosopher plato posed a riddle 6:44 which is baffled scholars ever since was 6:47 the story of the lost continent of 6:48 atlantis a complete fabrication or did 6:50 some historical reality lie behind it 6:53 the possibility of a real atlantis in 6:56 the terms that plato described it has 6:58 long gone 6:59 to which i would go oh really 7:02 yeah 7:03 he also said continent there 7:05 yeah and then for all its romantic 7:08 appeal the idea of a prehistoric super 7:11 civilization on an atlantic continent 7:14 is vanishingly unlike 7:17 but again 7:18 in science you got to define your terms 7:20 so i would ask what the hell do you mean 7:22 by super civilization yeah let's let's 7:26 define that and then 7:27 i think we can reject the use of the 7:29 term continent 7:31 because that was not 7:33 plato's term i mean plato 7:35 terms were the terms he used were 7:37 well-known returns for ireland or 7:39 islands 7:40 okay let's go on we'll talk about these 7:42 sea mounts we introduced seamounts last 7:45 episode right 7:47 right over here cursor is over the 7:49 pillars of hercules which is the straits 7:51 of gibraltar inside we have the 7:54 mediterranean outside we have 7:56 the atlantic ocean and if we follow this 7:59 dotted line here this is the fracture 8:02 zone right so we got the african plate 8:05 down here we've got the eurasian place 8:06 here in the north american plate over 8:08 here this dashed line represents the the 8:11 crack if you will between 8:13 the eurasian plate and the african plate 8:16 and it comes over here and then it it 8:18 transects it it cuts into this 8:21 this elevated region on the ocean floor 8:24 and it cuts right across this and then 8:26 it meets 8:27 the the suture zone or the fracture line 8:30 between 8:31 these two plates in the north american 8:33 plate and so what we have here is a 8:34 triple plate junction 8:36 which 8:37 obviously would be and and just yeah 8:40 logically would be a place a zone where 8:42 you would think there would be the most 8:44 flexibility in terms of isostatic 8:46 adjustments 8:48 right 8:49 um yeah and then we've got you can see 8:52 there these little dots i'll pull up 8:54 some better maps and but these are the 8:55 azores 8:57 which are actually just mountain tops 8:59 that who whose bases are sitting in this 9:03 if you want to call it a micro continent 9:06 right here 9:07 and then south of there you've got these 9:09 cluster of sea mounts right here and i 9:12 believe yes there we go so 9:14 they're named here's here's the azores 9:17 islands and then we've got 9:19 curiously named the atlantis c mount 9:23 here 9:24 plato c mount right here 9:27 great meteor c mount another interesting 9:30 connection and coincidence 9:32 make great meteor sea mount here and 9:35 then the cruiser seamount right here 9:38 so we've got these seamounts now let's 9:40 let's see what we learned about 9:41 seamounts 9:43 i'm going to skip a couple of things 9:45 here and here's a section looking at the 9:47 great meteor sea mount 9:49 an east west cross section 9:51 and you can see here 9:54 the vertical scale is exaggerated to 9:57 make it more prominent it isn't quite 9:59 this 10:00 dramatic coming up off of the ocean 10:02 floor 10:03 but that's what it looks like in profile 10:06 and here would be a bathymetric map of 10:09 it 10:10 right and the important thing to note 10:13 here is the flat sump 10:15 of it 10:16 we'll go through here and here's the 10:18 atlantis seamount 10:20 okay so here we have a flat top again 10:25 and 10:26 we have 10:27 uh yeah so here's the profile of the 10:29 submerged c map and here's the contour 10:32 intervals 10:33 the map showing the contours 10:35 and the depths of these things 10:37 and this is a contour interval okay so 10:40 this is a this is in fabrics so 500 10:43 fathoms would be 3 000 feet roughly it's 10:45 a fabulous six feet 10:47 yeah and here over here in this in this 10:49 one you can see the depth of the top of 10:51 the thing appears at about 400 roughly 10:54 400 fathoms 10:57 and here's the atlantic 10:59 atlanta seamount which got changed to 11:01 the atlantic sea mount 11:04 because you wouldn't want to have 11:05 anybody thinking that 11:08 they meant to imply that this was 11:10 atlantis 11:11 can't have 11:12 that how big are those sea mounts you 11:15 know you would 11:17 well okay the the tops of those plateaus 11:20 what's the width 11:22 what's what's what's the okay right here 11:24 this is uh 34 degrees north right here 11:28 and this is 34 degrees 10 minutes we 11:31 could figure out from that wouldn't be 11:32 hard to do um 11:34 let's see let's take a look right here 11:36 well okay so 11:39 there are no distance measurements here 11:40 that i can tell will that distance 11:42 change as you go further and further 11:44 north right 11:45 like 10 minutes of degrees will it it'll 11:48 change won't it yeah but for rough 11:51 purposes um 11:53 it's 20 let's see okay so we're looking 11:57 about one one mile per 12:00 per minute here at this latitude 12:02 10 10 miles here that's a decent sized 12:05 mountain yeah 12:07 yeah 12:08 or plateau if it's if it's shaved off it 12:10 plateaus plateau yeah yeah 12:14 and here they show up pretty clearly on 12:15 on this map of course so the question is 12:18 with all these flat top mountains what 12:21 made them flat-topped 12:23 ah what made them play see that's the 12:25 question right 12:27 um i mean and they're all flat topped at 12:29 pretty much the same height 12:31 right 12:32 okay well here's how you explain it and 12:35 we can actually pull up some scientific 12:37 research on this 12:38 you've got mountain peak 12:40 above the ocean and now you have a 12:42 highly turbulent erosive ocean 12:46 that is basically you have to have a a 12:48 means of shearing off 12:50 the tops of these mountains yeah 12:53 and because yeah because they're they're 12:55 they're basically at the same level that 12:57 shows you that this shearing force was 12:59 applied in a plane 13:01 it wasn't differential it was in a plane 13:04 what i've got up here now is a 13:05 bathymetric sketch of atlantis cruiser 13:08 and great meteor sea mounts 13:10 great meteor 13:11 uh cruiser atlantis is over here 13:14 reproduced from the face of the deep by 13:16 heathen and hollister 1971 bruce eason 13:20 by the way was one of the founding 13:21 fathers of marine geology and 13:24 tragically he died in a submersible 13:27 accident down doing research 13:31 the caption for this image reads ancient 13:35 sunken islands of the eastern atlantic 13:38 and here's here they are 13:40 showing how the the tops have been 13:42 sheared off 13:45 and here's what they would have looked 13:46 like 13:47 before shearing 13:49 oh yeah 13:50 they would have been prominent 13:52 sharp mountain peaks rising up out of 13:54 the ocean 13:57 so yeah you can look up neptune's 13:59 trident and you'll find some interesting 14:00 news so here we go you can see very 14:03 clearly the 14:04 the sutures 14:06 you can see the stretch marks 14:08 emanating laterally from the sutures 14:11 so i'm going to stop share for the 14:13 moment 14:14 give people a chance to digest all right 14:16 so let's get back to 14:18 um some of the science here this is from 14:21 uh honors if i'm pronouncing that right 14:24 j honores and 14:26 a group of others who published uh in 14:29 earth and planetary science letters 14:31 an article entitled mesozoic limestone 14:34 from the bema 14:36 offset zone mid-atlantic ridge now this 14:38 is a lo this is south of the azores but 14:40 the same principle applies to this idea 14:42 of vertical movement along along the 14:45 mid-atlantic bridge right 14:47 so in an earlier paper bonafti and 14:50 honors report 14:52 dredging a shallow water limestone from 14:55 the summit of a transverse ridge within 14:58 the offset zone of the mid-atlantic 15:00 ridge the limestone was reported to 15:03 contain detrital grains of quartz 15:05 orthoclase and microclimate indicating 15:09 that you don't need to know what that is 15:10 for right now although what you need to 15:12 know is that it indicates that there was 15:14 a nearby source of granitic detritus 15:18 which was available during its 15:19 deposition 15:22 and honors have unsuccessfully attempted 15:24 to explain their findings of granitic 15:27 material and shallow water limestones on 15:30 the basis of the present 15:33 or recent geographical configuration of 15:37 the equatorial atlantic 15:41 they suggested that the limestone and 15:43 its granitic mineral grains must have 15:45 been deposited sometime during the 15:47 mesozoic 15:48 which of course brings us back into the 15:50 age of the dinosaurs right we have to go 15:52 back at least 66 million years yeah 15:55 soon after the opening of the atlantic 15:58 rift 15:59 well and good within a narrow and 16:01 shallow 16:03 proto-atlantic basin 16:05 if bonadi and honores interpretation is 16:08 correct 16:09 it would require that the crustal block 16:12 capped by the limestone 16:14 was left behind 16:16 during the spreading of the atlantic 16:18 floor 16:20 this possibility would have important 16:23 implications 16:24 i'm going to skip over some of the 16:25 really technical stuff but they're 16:27 looking at the uh evidence of the oxygen 16:31 isotope ratios and the carbon ratios 16:33 carbon 12 and carbon 13 oxygen 16 and 16:36 oxygen 18 16:38 uh and found that they have strongly 16:40 negative values what does that mean well 16:42 it means that in both cases it's a clear 16:45 indication of sub-aerial 16:46 recrystallization 16:49 only through the action of meteoritic 16:50 water which means rainfall 16:53 enriched in light carbon while passing 16:55 through a soil zone can be can be 16:57 observed isotopic values to explain so 16:59 in other words 17:01 you're talking about 17:02 something that's above the surface of 17:03 the ocean there's soil there right right 17:07 soil yeah 17:09 okay dirty 17:11 dirt yes dirt 17:15 the conclusions 17:17 we derived from this study appeared to 17:19 confirm and extend the results obtained 17:22 previously 17:23 by bernanke and honores as follows 17:26 the components of the limestone 17:28 constitute homogeneous assemblage 17:31 characteristic of a shallow water 17:34 carbonate platform depositional 17:36 environment 17:37 the crustal block capped by the 17:40 limestone 17:41 must have undergone must must have 17:44 undergone 17:45 large vertical movements 17:48 including episodes of immersion 17:51 immersion coming out like immersion 17:54 would be 17:54 going into the water immersion coming 17:56 out of the water right large vertical 17:59 movements where where these 18:02 these blocks are coming up out of the 18:04 ocean 18:05 if crustal spreading took place in this 18:08 area 18:08 at rates of about 1.2 centimeters per 18:11 year the block capped by the limestone 18:13 apparently did not move with the 18:16 spreading floor 18:18 we're going to go 18:19 [Laughter] 18:22 so then we have a a a 18:25 an editorial comment on this work that 18:27 i'm just quoting from this appeared in 18:30 the new scientist 1975 volume 66 number 18:34 952 page 504 18:36 although they make no such fanciful 18:39 claim from their results 18:41 to have discovered the mythical 18:43 mid-atlantic landmass of course of 18:45 course 18:47 yeah they would they would not even 18:49 consider making such a fanciful claim 18:52 right although they make no such 18:53 fanciful claim from the results to have 18:55 discovered the mythical mid-atlantic 18:56 land mass an international group of 18:58 oceanographers has now convincingly 19:01 confirmed preliminary findings that a 19:04 sunken block of continent lies in the 19:07 middle of the friggin atlantic ocean 19:13 and i think that is the first documented 19:15 use of the term friggin 19:18 in the scientific literature 19:19 [Laughter] 19:22 yeah although they make no claims that 19:24 this was atlantis they basically found 19:26 atlantis 19:29 four years ago 19:31 two university my my aunt university of 19:34 miami workers jayanarez and ibanati 19:36 first reported the recovery of shallow 19:39 water limestone fragments from the vemma 19:41 fracture zone this limestone contained 19:44 minerals indicative of a nearby granitic 19:46 source unlikely to occur on the ocean 19:49 floor 19:51 the limestones include traces of shallow 19:53 water fossils foraminifera green algae 19:56 bits of gastropods and crab coprolites 19:59 implying formation in water 20:02 in one instance 20:04 less than 30 meters deep 20:06 about 100 feet 20:08 furthermore the limestones have been 20:09 recrystallized from a high to low 20:11 magnesium form of calcite 20:13 which is the thing that i was referring 20:15 to earlier that i left out the technical 20:17 details oxygen and carbon isotope ratios 20:20 prove conclusively that this process 20:22 must have taken place sub aerially 20:26 so i mean there we go um 20:29 then two years later ibanati and others 20:32 um 20:33 and another group of oceanographers and 20:35 marine geologists published yet another 20:37 paper 20:38 entitled neogene crustal emotion and and 20:41 subsidence at the romance fracture zone 20:44 equatorial atlantic 20:47 according to plate tectonic theory the 20:48 motions of lithospheric plates between 20:51 an accretionary boundary or a spreading 20:54 center and a consumptive boundary or a 20:58 subduction zone right are essentially 21:01 horizontal 21:02 taking place on the outer shell of the 21:04 globe 21:05 however 21:06 some exceptions to this model appear to 21:08 obtain 21:09 in the vicinity of major oceanic 21:12 fracture zones 21:16 yeah that was my my thought exactly 21:20 [Music] 21:22 in this paper we presented example of 21:24 vertical tectonism 21:27 of a transverse crustal block located on 21:30 the north side of the romance fracture 21:32 zone we demonstrated that the summit of 21:35 this block was at or above sea level 21:39 during the late cenozoic which 21:42 geologically speaking was was yesterday 21:44 so what they what their conclusion is is 21:47 that it has been suggested that um 21:49 the transverse morphology yeah bonadi 21:52 called attention to the significance of 21:54 prominent east-west transverse ridges 21:57 which 21:58 i will do a quick screen share here 22:01 because they show up really nice on this 22:05 particular 22:06 map right here and get back to these uh 22:10 transverse ridges 22:12 and that's these east-west 22:15 which i like in 22:16 last episode too basically earth stretch 22:19 marks 22:20 so that's what he's what he's talking 22:21 about here but he called attention to 22:24 the significance of prominent east-west 22:26 transverse ridges 22:28 some shown already by heazen and others 22:30 which run parallel to the equatorial 22:33 atlantic fracture zones it has been 22:36 suggested that such transverse 22:38 morphology associated with fracture 22:41 zones could not have been produced 22:43 solely by crustal spreading 22:46 from axial segments of the mid-atlantic 22:49 ridge 22:50 but that vertical 22:53 tectonic motions 22:55 exceeding those predicted by a simple 22:58 plate tectonic model 23:00 must have operated 23:03 so 23:04 right there those what i'm calling the 23:05 stretch marks 23:07 are are like the evidence what he's 23:08 calling here that that their evidence 23:10 that vertical tectonic motions exceeding 23:13 those predicted by a simple plate 23:14 tectonic model must have operated 23:18 right so those those transverse ridges 23:20 were made by massive vertical movements 23:22 of that 23:23 it makes sense too because it's 23:25 like when you're looking at the map it 23:26 looks flat but really it's curved 23:29 like this 23:30 so if it was going to be pushed out it 23:32 would have to crack 23:34 all along that yeah that main fissure 23:37 because it's actually round yeah you 23:39 know what i'm saying unless this is flat 23:41 earth society over here 23:43 it would you know on a flat surface it 23:46 could rise up like this without having 23:48 these cracks yeah running this way 23:51 but because it's curved 23:54 it's got a crack in both 23:56 both axes yeah in order to expand 23:59 outwards and yeah that's right yeah 24:01 by enrico bernanke published in 1978 24:04 also in earth and planetary science 24:06 letters is entitled vertical vertical 24:09 tectonism in 24:11 oceanic fracture zones 24:13 he says in this paper i will focus 24:15 attention on another class of exceptions 24:17 to the age depth of the oceanic crust 24:19 relationship namely on anomalies 24:23 associated with large oceanic fracture 24:25 zones i will present examples from the 24:27 atlantic and indian oceans which suggest 24:30 strong vertical tectonizer tectonism 24:34 to be characteristic of the large 24:37 fracture zones a qualitative estimate of 24:40 vertical motions of the crust at the 24:41 romance fracture zone was made possible 24:43 in one case by the recovery of dateable 24:46 shallow water limestones from the summit 24:49 of the transverse ridge which is 24:51 presently 24:52 about 3 200 feet below sea level 24:56 on the north side of the romance valley 24:58 these limestones were formed close to 25:02 sea level about five million years ago 25:05 but subsequently have undergone episodes 25:08 of emersion 25:10 in other words they've come up 25:12 and been exposed to the atmosphere 25:15 right 25:17 wow the data discussed in this paper 25:19 indicate that get this intense 25:23 vertical tectonism of upper mantle and 25:26 crustal blocks occurs along the large 25:30 oceanic fracture zones 25:32 this vertical tectonism causes motions 25:35 which exceed by far 25:38 the small relative vertical motions of 25:40 the type 25:41 discussed recently in other words 25:44 what they've discovered here in the 70s 25:46 is that there has been this massive 25:48 movement of the ocean floor concentrated 25:51 along the oceanic fractures 25:57 [Music] 26:11 [Music] 26:14 you
Randall Carlson Podcast Ep007 Atlantis Mystery - Evidence Revealed Pt5: MAR Granitic Block Confirmed
The Randall Carlson
60,358 views Dec 19, 2019
Kosmographia Episode 007 / Atlantis Mystery - Evidence Revealed (pt5), from 9/09/19. RC joins the Snake Bros - Kyle and Russ, GCREX admin Bradley and Mystery-Man Mike continue the exploration for evidence along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. (Includes bonus content)
I’ll have to check this out later. Recently I’ve been looking into strange stuff about the Azores, which are right near the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Did you know there’s an ancient site on the Azores that matches pretty closely with the description of Calypso’s cave on the “mythical” isle of Ogygia from the Odyssey?
Ogygia was an ancient name for Egypt. Butler claimed that the Odyssey uses various sites on Sicily, and that it was written by a woman. I never have liked the Odyssey, and haven’t much cared for the Iliad either, but just from the translations I’ve had access to over the years, it’s clear they weren’t written by the same author (or authors). The Odyssey comes off as an ancient romance novel.
Calypso’s Cave on Azores?
Calypso’s Cave on Gozo, Malta?
I always thought it was Malta. Or thereabouts.
Yes, the first link is good but he just mostly compiles stuff from previous authors that wrote on the idea of the Odyssey describing places in the Atlantic. And Malta is just not in the right area at all, since it’s far too close to where Ulysses starts off on the journey.
This is the cave I’m talking about:
It has natural springs with water channels cut into the rock of the cave floor, both of which are mentioned specifically in the description of Calypso’s cave. The author thinks it is merely a Phoenician worship site, and it may have been, but I think not many are considering that the Phoenicians may have just built temples on pre-existing holy sites that they were commemorating, just as the Christians did when they built their cathedrals on top of the pagan sites in Europe.
“Ogygia was an ancient name for Egypt.”
But Egypt is not an island, and Ulysses visits Crete early on in his travels, which is right next to Egypt. So it makes no sense for him to get stranded on Ogygia in the mid-point of his journey after he left the area of Egypt heading west/northwest before being blown off course.
“The Odyssey comes off as an ancient romance novel.”
There’s a bit of that but it seems to me that there are veiled references to real places in it, but that the more “fantastic” places are ones that Greek sailors may have heard about, but probably never visited themselves.
It's a work of fiction, so trying to find the "real" places is probably not going to be fruitful. One place given for Scylla and Charybdis is the Strait of Messina (off Sicily, iow), but they're mythical critters or what have you. Tourism is very old, and having a tourist trap / attraction was just as important in antiquity as it is now. I've heard tell that Stephen Foster was photographed a number of times in a number of towns, pointing to the one, the only, Old Mill Stream. :^)
Timaeus by Plato
Translated by Benjamin Jowett
Critias by Plato
Translated by Benjamin Jowett
Key to Map of Possible Route of Odysseus
Graphic: Tim Severin, The Ulysses Voyage: sea search for the Odyssey (London 1987).
Text: adapted from Erich Lessing, The Voyages of Ulysses (Vienna 1965) and other sources
And whoops, Ogyges was a king of Attic Greece, he even had a flood named after him. I’d remembered Ogygian Thebes, but it was Greek, just to be contrary.
There was this can of worms, see, and the sell by date was in an antique language, so it made sense to open it, and, well...
Redefining The Two Lands: Egypt, Greece, and Ogygian Thebes
Justin S Miller
This was a paper given at the 2015 Duke/UNC Chapel Hill Graduate Colloquium. It discusses the use of the word ‘ogygios’ within the Alexandrian corpus as a means of collapsing the geography of Boeotian Thebes with Egyptian Thebes.
Thanks Boogieman. Additional:
The rest of the Atlantis keyword, minus NASA's shuttle topics, minus some political topics, and minus Stargate and other Sci-fi topics, then edited some all-caps titles with this, and here are the results, sorted:
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