Is it even possible? Yes, it is.
Posted on 12/01/2021 12:11:45 AM PST by SunkenCiv
...We know that Halley's Comet was visible in the sky in 11 B.C. However, as the Magi trekked toward Jerusalem and on to Bethlehem, it seems unlikely that they followed a comet because its position would have changed as the Earth rotated, so the comet would not have led them in a single direction. What's more, in the ancient world, comets were often regarded as bad omens...
We can also rule out novas and supernovas. Either event would have resulted in a detectable remnant, but astronomers have not found anything that might date back to this time.
Furthermore, had the Magi followed one, they probably would have walked in a circle...
Such an event would surely have been seen by others at the time, too. Although novas are reportedly quite rare, you'd still expect to find other historical accounts of a large, bright event in the sky.
Other theories suggest a supernova in the Andromeda galaxy as the cause...
This leads us to one of two possibilities. The first is that the Magi were making an astrological interpretation of the sky. The fact that they needed to ask Herod for directions when they arrived suggests they were not being led to their final destination by a single bright object...
Astronomer Michael Molnar suggested that a conjunction theory might be correct in his book "The Star of Bethlehem" (Rutgers University Press, 1999). If the "star" was the result of a conjunction (and this historical event did really happen), then there are a number of different alignments that could be the culprit.
Perhaps the most promising, and the one favored by Mathews, is an alignment of Jupiter, Saturn, the moon and the sun in the constellation of Aries on April 17, 6 B.C.
(Excerpt) Read more at livescience.com ...
It moved over the place where Jesusresided. It was supernatural
It was a supernatural miracle of divine origin. Anyone who scours astronomical history or strains the laws of physics to explain an act of God clearly described in inerrant scripture is barking up the wrong tree. Just believe. Don’t allow your considerable intellect be your undoing. Allow your faith pride of place and watch what happens.
“The fact that they needed to ask Herod for directions when they arrived suggests they were not being led to their final destination by a single bright object...”
Or it was cloudy weather and they hadn’t seen the star for a few days? Later when they were pointed in Bethlehem’s direction by the Priests in Herod’s court the star(not star-—z of a conjunction..we make 21st century assumptions that the magi singularized a collected conjunction of planets into a singular “star” object), the Star(singular) appeared to them and they rejoiced as it appeared to go before them until it hovered over the house where Jesus was. If it was a star or conjunction, given the distance from Bethlehem to Jerusalem, it would have been overhead or looked overhead(it would have actually looked far to the west if it were truly celestial)...but it wasn’t overhead until the Magi arrived at Jesus’ house.
I think the Magi saw a dim star that didn’t move with the times of night or the seasons over a two year time period. They saw it in the west from their positions in the East. They decided that this was worth their attention and decided to travel towards it...as they got closer the star remained fixed in the same direction even though the constellations would move about polaris thru the night and then seasonally...but the star stayed in its position...albeit visible after sundown. As they traveled towards it the star’s position stayed fixed in the in the west but it’s angle above the western horizon rose the farther west they traveled indicating that the object was rather close to Earth. Being Magi they would also know somthing of the legends and religions of the various lands. As the star’s apparent x axis angle above the Horizon rose each night but always staying in it ‘s fixed y axis...the Magi would have figured that the star’s eventual overhead position would put them somewhere in Roman Palestine. This was not an ordinary star but most unlearned folk would not have noticed it. Yet the Magi knew the heavens and knew the fixed comings and goings of various stars and planets, they knew the Earth was round and that even Sol itself traveled through various constellation groups over much longer periods of time.
So what they saw of this star must have excited them so much that they had to come to see what was going on. A star that changed not its position through-out the night but did rise to near overhead the closer to Israel they got. They had heard of legends of a coming Holy one thru many of the religions that were extant at the time. The priest’s at Herod’s court confirmed a coming “King of the Jews” and that the prophets had indicated that Bethlehem would be such a birthplace.
After seeing the child and the star overhead and the dreams they had telling them not to return to Herod, they had their confirmation that they had seen with their own eyes the Salvation of mankind.
That is my view of the star of Bethlehem based on the Bible and on the science of Observation. The Magi knew the heavens but it was the peculiarities of the behaviour of this particular object that actually prompted them to move it. Like the Burning Bush that Moses saw....he took a second look and a third look and realized that it was not being consumed away.(Some bushes in that region were known to catch fire in the hot sun due to resins in such bushes becoming super heated).
I think the Magi had a similar experience with this “star”. Some plain old looking star...no too bright, not too dim. You might note the time of its appearance but as other stars come and go it might seem at first to be a yawner...until you started realizing that it doesn’t drift around Polaris the same way... The wandering “planetes” did their thing across the seasons and the years...but this star...same place every night, given the seasons and time of sunset, same position and when you moved towards it it’s position, it would apparently rise above the western horizon...while staying in its same y axis line. This star was the Magi’s burning bush. Modern astronomers should be so lucky!
Ping
The translation of “we have seen his star in the east” when translated fully means “we of the east have seen his star and have come to worship”. Meaning the magi travelled westward from the East.
That’s why you have a song line in “We three kings” that goes...”westward leading still proceeding following yonder star”
I don’t think they were following the star per se. The star was in a static position in a y axis position relative to the constant movements of other heavenly bodies as the Earth turned about its axis at night. The star stayed in that position though it’s apparent x axis position rose to overhead as the Magi came closer to israel.
Don’t forget what the Bible says..when the Magi left Herod...they rejoiced as the Star appeared before them and came to overhead as the found the home of Jesus.(who was two years old at the time...which tells you how long the magi had been watching this star and why Herod killed all the males in this region that were 2 years and under) This was no ordinary celestial object. It was the Magis burning bush! God even spoke to them in a dream not to go back to Herod. Not a regular star!
ASTRONOMY PING!...................
It seems to me that this would contradict just about everything else about the birth of Jesus that we read in Scripture. One of the defining characteristics of the Incarnation was that it was ordinary in almost every sense as humans would understand it. Jesus didn't just appear on earth as a grown man and begin His ministry. He was born to a human mother, and under ordinary and modest circumstances (not as a royal figure).
I find it far more remarkable that the Magi were driven by signs in the sky that were visible to everyone but whose meaning was only known to a select few. In the case of the Magi, they were likely acting on information that had been passed down from the prophet Daniel during the Babylonian captivity. As astrologers they would have been familiar with the night sky, and would have looked there for signs of what Daniel had foretold.
Everything about this narrative would be indicative of how Jesus lived on this earth for a brief period of time -- as the Son of God living and working miracles in plain sight among ordinary people, with ordinary disciples following Him.
The more likely explanation involves planetary movements, not a “star” per se. Those who have an interest in astronomy understand exactly how scenarios like this could have played out in the skies. The planets Venus, Jupiter, Mars and Saturn would have been particularly relevant because they are among the brightest objects in the sky aside from the sun and moon. And because the outer planets periodically engage in apparent retrograde motion across the night sky as they orbit the sun relative to the earth’s orbit, there are rare occasions where planets will align, separate, and then align again over the course of months or even years.
This was no ordinary celestial object. It was the Magis burning bush!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clearly the star was a supernatural manifestation and here is what I think can be deduced from reading Matthew 2 verses 1 to 12:
Verse 1 says that “the wise men came from the east to Jerusalem” and when they got to Jerusalem, they said “where is he that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east and are come to worship him.” This says that they weren’t just on a casual fishing expedition…. they had detailed information in advance that meant that they knew exactly what they were doing and who they were looking for. I don’t believe there were any prophetical passages in scripture that can be pointed to as to giving guidance to the wise men as to what they were seeing and what they needed to do. Numbers 24:17 is sometimes mentioned, but this verse has no specificity at all…. And yet the wise men knew plenty of the details of what the mission was that they were on, and this indicates that there was something that went on here that is not recorded in scripture. Did all these wise men wake up one day having all dreamed the same vivid dream the night before? Later on in verse 12, we do find out that God did talk to them in a dream…… Whatever it was, they also knew that they were being given the star to guide them to Jesus…. Not just any star, they had enough details of what the mission was that then knew it was HIS star.
There is nothing in verses 1 to 10 that indicate that anyone else could even see this ‘star’. Yes, scripture calls it a star but there are plenty of reasons to believe the ‘celestial object’ was not a star as we understand a star to be…. there just probably wasn’t another word that existed to describe what it was. If the star was the vehicle to give them direction on where to go, it seems that this celestial object appeared to be essentially right over their heads at just about the height of treetops and could be seen both day and night by them and no one else. Notice that when they got to Jerusalem, it seems like the light switched off…. that means it was not a normal star, supernova etc. Note that there was no one else who joined in along the way on the trip of chasing this ‘moving star’ and there was no one in Jerusalem who was talking about the star….this again seems to indicate that no else had seen it. When the light switched off at Jerusalem, Phase 1 of their mission was over.
When the wise men got to Jerusalem, they had enough details about their mission to know to ask questions about where to find Jesus…. And this forced Herod, and the chief priests and scribes to dig into scriptures to find the prophecies that said the birthplace was in Bethlehem. Notice that the wise men weren’t the ones to figure out that Jesus was born in Bethlehem... that information came from Herod. This signaled that God’s objective of having them go first to Jerusalem was accomplished. With this first phase of their mission over, the light switched on again so that they could complete the second part of their mission… travelling to Bethlehem so that they could meet the Child. Verse 10 says that “When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.” Why was this? It was because it suddenly dawned on them that while God had brought them to Jerusalem, that was just the phase 1 detour on the way to the goal of meeting Jesus. As soon as the star lead them to and stopped directly over the home where Jesus was, they knew that the mission phase 2 was accomplished (verse 11 “And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him....”).
After this, they were warned directly by God in a dream to not go back to see Herod but go directly to their own country. If a dream was collectively given to them to close out the mission, it certainly seems like it very likely was a dream that kicked off the mission. One can only wonder if the wise men were so far from home that they still needed the light to help them get back…. scripture doesn’t actually say when the light was switched off for good.
Just speculating, but it does seem more than possible that the Magi lost their ‘star’ because the weather was overcast much of that time.
As a side note, there are 2 or three historical Bethlehems. The present day Bethlehem did not exist at that time.
Aliens in a UFO? 🤓
Is it even possible? Yes, it is.
I knew someone would post him on this thread... 🤓
Either the birth of Jesus was Divine, or it wasn’t.
If it was Divine, then what the Magi were following was a Divine sign, completely unrelated to any natural phenomenon, and needs no further explanation.
LOL. And if you knew about Herod, you wouldn't interrupt his day to ask him.
Ironic, considering that it's not just a footnote of history. It's the subject of an annual search party! Diligent.
Alberta's Child: I find it far more remarkable that the Magi were driven by signs in the sky that were visible to everyone but whose meaning was only known to a select few.
Anything outside of the conventional, established, accepted consensus trajectory-that-identifies-as-a-path-to-insight gets the boot. Just ask Joseph what happened to him when he shared his dreams. Gone!
Twinkle, twinkle, little star
How I wonder what you are
Up above the world so high
Like a diamond in the sky
Twinkle, twinkle, little star
How I wonder what you are
menatznetz kokhav katan
beshamayim ohr lavan...
Twinkle Twinkle Little Star in Hebrew For Kids ("Babee")
sidenote: kokhav katan, little star [כוכב קטן] = 207 = ohr, light [אור]
Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east**, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was:
*
8
And when they were come into the house [בית],
Koch Snowflake:
"There's a mathematician named Gunter Janek. You know him?"
Cryptography systems are based on mathematical problems...
...so complex they cannot be solved without a key.
Janek figured out a way to solve those problems without the key...
...and he hard-wired it into that chip. - Turn it off.
kokavit [כוכבית]: asterisk, "little star"
Matthew 28 And he sent them to Bethlehem***, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child...
"The letter U (יו) is the twenty-first letter in the Latin alphabet."
Shines a whole new light on the graphic, because
U: yud-vav (יו), is the holy name that is close to God's name and not meant to be used as just a number.
Janek figured out a way to solve those problems without the key..
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. 11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother:
Number pad on laptop
"There isn't a government on this planet that wouldn't kill us all for that thing."
Janek is the diminuitive of Jan, i.e. John. John could be anyone, even an Alias. John Dough. He had the key, in any case. Elias:
According to Anthony Wood, the collection filled twelve wagons when it was transferred to Oxford. It would have been more, but a large part of Ashmole's own collection, destined for the museum, including antiquities, books, manuscripts, prints, and 9,000 coins and medals, was destroyed in a disastrous fire in the Middle Temple on 26 January 1679.
Example of how destroyed valuables can be saved, replaced by something even more valuable.
The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
You want it fast or you want it good? You no rush Michelangelo:
In 1501, on Rosh Hashanah, 5262,
He began carving the statue early in the morning on 13 September, a month after he was awarded the contract. He would work on the massive statue for more than two years.
"Observe my statues!" ~ Michelangelo
The 8th day is the first day, one level up.
It goes on. ∞
Forget what you knew
We'll start life anew
Down on the Corner of Love.
☞ STARS OVER BAKERSFIELD:
Joseph dropped out of sight. He was presumed dead because history repeats.
As it turned out, he returned safe and sound in the end. He was not only wealthy, he was a just man because in all that time, he got the chance to be himself. Therefore, he could get anything that he asked for. Anything.
The digital root of a star number is always 1 or 4, and progresses in the sequence 1, 4, 1, but those who won't hear Moses and the Prophets (great name for a band) won't be persuaded though one rose from the dead.
I wonder how many presume that the videos I link will lead to Bible lessons, i.e. some guy up on a stage going on and on. They do... to the songs of famous artists. Three minutes give or take. To new heights on the shoulders of giants.
King David has a real vision for the singers and musicians. He passed it all along to Solomon...
sand: חול, see also
outside the land: חו"ל
because who ever reads the fine print?
*Probably not a star.
** asterisk
*** "house of bread"; bread (lechem, לחם) = 78
Well I did have a few thoughts along some of the tracks you have described like yours but I only speculated based on what the bible says and also based on what stars, constellations, and planets do which can be observed. Not pooh poohing your thoughts at all but I kept some of those thoughts out of my posting...glad you said them first...hahaha!
The Magi were also well versed no doubt in religious customs in the levant at the time and were no doubt seeking the divine thru astrology and mathematics and were amongst the intelligent of all who existed at that time.
They knew the times and the skies and whatever they saw prompted them to act over a two year period. That we know from the horrible orders to kill the newborn males of 2 years and younger in that region of Israel.
Whatever supernatural unction that spurred them on their way has remained unwritten in the Bible but it wouldn’t surprise me me in that group had dreams or other strange observations regarding the star.
Just a stationary star appearing never to wander but always fixed when everything else is moving around it thru the night, in this day and age would have modern astronomers dumfounded and UFO conspiracists going nuts! Smart Magi who knew the times and the celestial seasons would have gotten very interested in even an ordinary star that did what it did. Otherwise most ordinary people probably would not have noticed it.
Just imagine what will happen when the Sign of the Coming of the Son of man appears in the heavens where all can see it!
God bless you sir or ma’m!
That’s true...but the prophet mentions Bethlehem Ephrata as being important as salvation would come thru it. So locate Bethelehem Ephrata and you have the correct Bethlehem.
Yes, even then though such movements could be tracked, anticipated and evaluated based on local events and knowledge of the times. The magi would have had access to records dating back to babylon and knew such conjunctions occurred regularly if not often. They were spiritually minded but not necessarily superstitious. This object had them curious as it had appeared at least 2 years before their arrival in Jerusalem.(based on the ages of male children herod had put to death) Conjunctions don’t last 2 years.
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