Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The 'Birds Come First' hypothesis of dinosaur evolution
Tetrapod Zoology ^ | June 8, 2009 | Darren Naish

Posted on 06/15/2009 6:27:50 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

Here, we look at a rather different proposal: the decidedly non-standard, non-mainstream Birds Come First (or BCF) hypothesis proposed by George Olshevsky. Rightly or wrongly, BCF has never been discussed in the technical literature (I have at least alluded to it in historiographical articles (Naish 2000a, b)), and all of George's articles on it have been in the 'grey' or popular literature (Olshevsky 1991, 1994, 2001a, b). Thanks, predominantly, to his activity on the dinosaur mailing list (a popular discussion list for dinosaur aficionados and researchers), George's BCF hypothesis was once well known and much discussed, and perhaps considered seriously by at least a few specialists [image below shows some of the 'dino-birds' integral to the BCF hypothesis (read on), with Archaeopteryx at far right. This illustration is (c) Luis Rey and originally appeared in Olshevsky (1994)]

(Excerpt) Read more at scienceblogs.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: archaeopteryx; bcf; birdscomefirst; dinosaurs; georgeolshevsky; godophobia; godsgravesglyphs; junkscience; morphology; paleontology; science; speculozoology; spontaneouslifers; storkzilla
Tetrapod Zoology: The Birds Come First hypothesis of dinosaur evolution, Posted on: June 8, 2009 4:27 AM, by Darren Naish

1 posted on 06/15/2009 6:27:50 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

This was Naish's followup, and it's worth knowing about, but isn't of particularly high quality.
Birds Come First -- oh no they don't!
by Darren Naish
Tetrapod Zoology
June 10, 2009
To begin with, let me note that the underlying premise of BCF is fundamentally problematical: the idea that there is some sort of 'central trunk' (Olshevsky 1994, p. 42) or single, unbroken lineage that extended from the first stem-archosaur to the most recently evolved, modern bird. Old 'family tree' diagrams did indeed show a single, central lineage that included the ancestors of the various 'branches' -- this is where we get the erroneous idea of ladder-like progression and missing links from -- but this concept is erroneous and always relies on the idea that one group or species is somehow special, or sat at the 'top' of the tree (in most trees that 'special' organism is Homo sapiens).

2 posted on 06/15/2009 6:28:48 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Here's an excerpt from the Oregon State University release which probably motivated Naish's "Birds Came First" 'blog entry:
Discovery raises new doubts about dinosaur-bird links
News and Communication Services
Oregon State University
6-9-09
It's been known for decades that the femur, or thigh bone in birds is largely fixed and makes birds into "knee runners," unlike virtually all other land animals, the OSU experts say. What was just discovered, however, is that it's this fixed position of bird bones and musculature that keeps their air-sac lung from collapsing when the bird inhales. Warm-blooded birds need about 20 times more oxygen than cold-blooded reptiles, and have evolved a unique lung structure that allows for a high rate of gas exchange and high activity level. Their unusual thigh complex is what helps support the lung and prevent its collapse... However, every other animal that has walked on land, the scientists said, has a moveable thigh bone that is involved in their motion -- including humans, elephants, dogs, lizards and -- in the ancient past -- dinosaurs... "For one thing, birds are found earlier in the fossil record than the dinosaurs..." Ruben said... "But one of the primary reasons many scientists kept pointing to birds as having descended from dinosaurs was similarities in their lungs," Ruben said... The newest findings, the researchers said, are more consistent with birds having evolved separately from dinosaurs and developing their own unique characteristics, including feathers, wings and a unique lung and locomotion system. There are some similarities between birds and dinosaurs, and it is possible, they said, that birds and dinosaurs may have shared a common ancestor, such as the small, reptilian "thecodonts," which may then have evolved on separate evolutionary paths into birds, crocodiles and dinosaurs. The lung structure and physiology of crocodiles, in fact, is much more similar to dinosaurs than it is to birds... old theories die hard, Ruben said...

3 posted on 06/15/2009 6:28:52 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

birds came before dinosaurs site:freerepublic.com
Google
birds came first site:freerepublic.com
Google
Darren Naish site:freerepublic.com
Google

4 posted on 06/15/2009 6:28:54 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Assorted related topics and posts:

http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a38caf053111c.htm#38
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a38caf053111c.htm#43
http://www.Freerepublic.com/forum/a388487fe0e8c.htm#79

Birds Didn’t Evolve from Dinosaurs
(Evos forced to invent an even older common ancestor!)
CEH | June 9, 2009
Posted on 06/09/2009 5:33:16 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2268390/posts

Dino-Era Feathers Found Encased In Amber (100 Million Years Old)
National Geographic News | 3-11-2008 | James Owens
Posted on 03/12/2008 5:37:43 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1984775/posts

Fossil Backs Theory Linking Dinosaurs To Birds
San Francisco Chronicle | 5/4/09 | David Perlman
Posted on 05/06/2009 10:52:37 AM PDT by steve-b
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2245477/posts

T. Rex Confirmed As Great Grandaddy Of All Birds
New Scientist | 4-24-2008 | Ewen Callaway
Posted on 04/24/2008 1:37:14 PM PDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2006502/posts


5 posted on 06/15/2009 6:28:58 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Sometime in the 1990s, the hypothesis was written about in popular mags, such as the Discover article I remember (it's probably around the house somewhere).

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


6 posted on 06/15/2009 6:30:39 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Dinosaur-Bird Flap Ruffles Feathers
Yahoo!News | October 10, 2005 | E.J. Mundell
Posted on 10/11/2005 4:07:11 AM PDT by mlc9852
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1500340/posts

Surprise: Chickens Can Grow Teeth
Live Science | 22 February 2006 | Bjorn Carey
Posted on 02/23/2006 6:41:48 AM PST by GreenFreeper
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1584077/posts

[snip] ...a mutant chicken with a full set of crocodile-like chompers... called Talpid, also had severe limb defects and died before hatching. [end]

Cretaceous Chicken: Bus-Sized Dinosaur Breathed Like Birds Do
foxnews | September 30, 2008
Posted on 09/30/2008 3:08:33 PM PDT by Justice Department
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2094323/posts

Downy dinosaur found in China was an early bird
The Times | 1/13/2008 | Lewis Smith
Posted on 01/12/2009 6:55:59 PM PST by bruinbirdman
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2163538/posts


7 posted on 06/15/2009 6:34:07 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

BCF is not BADD.


8 posted on 06/15/2009 6:34:10 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (The code word for the new racism is "diversity.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bloody Sam Roberts

:’)


9 posted on 06/15/2009 6:38:24 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Well, it’s about time “science” got it right: Genesis very properly said birds were created very shortly after the “monsters in the sea.”

And both critters were said to be around a long time before any of the modern mammals.


10 posted on 06/15/2009 6:45:08 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

The only way to solve these questions is to invent a time machine. /sarc


11 posted on 06/15/2009 9:20:10 AM PDT by Dustbunny ("Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them. " Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

12 posted on 06/15/2009 2:55:55 PM PDT by JRios1968 (The real first rule of Fight Club: don't invite Chuck Norris...EVER)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson