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'Birmingham Koran' fragment could shake Islam, carbon-dating suggests it is OLDER than Muhammad
Daily Mail ^ | 09/01/2015 | By JENNIFER NEWTON

Posted on 09/01/2015 6:46:13 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

The 'Birmingham Koran' fragment that could shake Islam after carbon-dating suggests it is OLDER than the Prophet Muhammad



Fragments of the world's oldest Koran, found in Birmingham last month, may predate the Prophet Muhammad and could even rewrite the early history of Islam, according to scholars.

The pages, thought to be between 1,448 and 1,371 years old, were discovered bound within the pages of another Koran from the late seventh century at the library of the University of Birmingham.

Written in ink in an early form of Arabic script on parchment made from animal skin, the pages contain parts of the Suras, or chapters, 18 to 20, which may have been written by someone who actually knew the Prophet Muhammad - founder of the Islamic faith.

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Discovery: Fragments of what is believed to be the world's oldest Koran. Several historians have said it could even predate the Prophet Muhammad

Discovery: Fragments of what is believed to be the world's oldest Koran. Several historians have said it could even predate the Prophet Muhammad

The pages were carbon-dated by experts at the University of Oxford, a process which showed the Islamic holy book manuscript could be the oldest Koran in the world.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Religion; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: birmingham; birminghamkoran; cancerofislam; epigraphyandlanguage; faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; islam; islamiccancer; koran; mohammed; moslems; muhammad; muslims; radiocarbon; radiocarbondating; rcdating; religionofpieces; rop; unitedkingdom; waronterror
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1 posted on 09/01/2015 6:46:13 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Lemme guess. They are going to keep finding fragments that are older and older till they find some older than the books of the bible, right?


2 posted on 09/01/2015 6:48:41 AM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: SeekAndFind

Next—Rioting in the streets by upset Muzzies.


3 posted on 09/01/2015 6:50:40 AM PDT by Arm_Bears (Biology is biology. Everything else is imagination.)
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To: Arm_Bears

So, Mo was a plagiarist?


4 posted on 09/01/2015 6:52:04 AM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
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To: SeekAndFind

This will quickly disappear from the news for fear of offending you know who.


5 posted on 09/01/2015 6:52:07 AM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: jsanders2001

Islamold testament.


6 posted on 09/01/2015 6:52:41 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.)
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To: jsanders2001

Nah, won’t matter because it would have to say the same thing as the Bible. They ain’t even close.


7 posted on 09/01/2015 6:53:12 AM PDT by LS ("Castles Made of Sand, Fall in the Sea . . . Eventually" (Hendrix))
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To: SeekAndFind

Totalitarian Death Cult Alert!


8 posted on 09/01/2015 6:54:33 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (RINOs EARNED TRUMP! I prefer Cruz, but someone has to kick their A$$!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Carbon dating is not too precise. I would tend to believe the “Muzzie” version before I would believe a precise carbon date.


9 posted on 09/01/2015 6:55:33 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS
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To: SeekAndFind

Prophet Muhammad as a little Bill Gates in him?


10 posted on 09/01/2015 6:55:48 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jsanders2001

“Lemme guess. They are going to keep finding fragments that are older and older till they find some older than the books of the bible, right?”

The Vedas, the Upanishads and some of the Sutras are older than the Bible.

Age does not mean that much


11 posted on 09/01/2015 6:56:12 AM PDT by Fai Mao (Genius at Large)
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To: jpsb
has a little

Oops

12 posted on 09/01/2015 6:56:13 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: NewHampshireDuo
So, Mo was a plagiarist?

Actually, some scholars claim that he never existed.

Read this book if you can get it...



The author (Robert Spencer) combed through the writings of many Islamic researchers who have questioned the historiography of some event in Muhammad's perceived career as a `barker' for the Arabian dessert god Allah.

Is Muhammad the Arab version of England's Robin Hood? Perhaps not a real figure, but more of a figurine based on legends from the dim memories of faded accounts of misty campfire tales about past multiple adventure-action dune warriors and chieftains. Mr. Spencer unabashedly poses the heretical question: "Did Muhammad exist?

For instance, Mr. Spencer notes that the name "Muhammad actually appears in the Qur'an only four times, and in three of those instances it could be used as a title - the `praised one' or `chosen one' - rather than as a proper name" (p. 17).

So the Quran itself bespeaks little about the realism of `Muhammadun rasulu Allahi' - and it appears that the Quran didn't bind up well until sixty years after its reciter's demise - even though Muslims maintain that it has always existed (p. 126). Mr. Spencer tried to find a `reality check' for Muhammad in both the ahadith (life stories) and Sira (biography)
13 posted on 09/01/2015 6:57:56 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (What is the difference between Obama and government bonds? Government bonds will mature someday)
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To: SeekAndFind

This headline is misleading. The carbon dating has a wide range from shortly before Muhammad’s birth to shortly after his death. The Koran was written down very shortly after his death so it’s possible this is one of the very first written Koran’s ever, but less likely it predates Muhammad in my opinion.


14 posted on 09/01/2015 6:59:59 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (The only fiscally sound thing dems ever did: create a state run media they don't have to pay for)
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To: SeekAndFind

The age of the parchment is one thing, the age of the ink another.


15 posted on 09/01/2015 7:00:18 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: NewHampshireDuo

Mo Biden!

But seriously, the original text was written by Satan, so...


16 posted on 09/01/2015 7:07:34 AM PDT by Dr.Deth
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To: NewHampshireDuo

When you dig into the younger years of Muhammad...his uncle was handling the “kid” and they were traders. This meant that one of the chief features of their occupation...was traveling around. So you got to move into different circles. Few people grasp this angle to the story.

In this period...630AD plus...you’d be surprised how many religions existed in the Middle East....literally hundreds. Mecca? It was a trader’s paradise but it also had a religious fest each year....for various groups to meet up at the Black Rock...as part of the fest.

So, Mohammad and the Uncle traveled around and he had thousands of opportunities to mingle with various religious groups. Eventually, he fell more into the religious angle, than the trader angle. I think you’d say...he was drawn to some answer in life. Eventually, he invented his own religion, using bits and pieces of what he’d picked from various Jewish groups and other religions.

This ‘before-Mohammad’ Koran? It’s a shocker because they had attempted in the period after Mohammad to gather up and destroy all the old copies, and issue out the official Koran. Oddly, this piece survives.

If you were looking for some angle to bring down the entire Islamic religion...you need to find more such editions....all prior to 630AD. One of the best places where such things might be found....is the library of the Vatican. But these guys are so screwed up on inventory....they could spend decades hunting through their archives.


17 posted on 09/01/2015 7:14:44 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: SeekAndFind

The older the fragments of Scripture get, such as the discovery of the Dead sea Scrolls, the more both Christian and Jewish Scholars rejoice, as the older syntax and wording validate the texts that we use to this very day. The intact Isaiah Scroll is a magnificent witness to this fact.

However, when older fragments of the Q’oran are discovered, it throws islamic scholars into a tizzy, because it shows the plagiarism, variations, revisions, and downright silliness of their “holy” book.


18 posted on 09/01/2015 7:20:38 AM PDT by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: pepsionice

Muslims destroyed a lot of their own history to ensure the account of their history is pleasing.


19 posted on 09/01/2015 7:26:15 AM PDT by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The parchment could actually predate Muhammad but not have been written on until after Muhammad.


20 posted on 09/01/2015 7:28:45 AM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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