Neanderthals wouldn't have eaten their sprouts either

PhysOrg.com ^ | August 12th, 2009 | Denholm Barnetson

[decimon]

They have found that a gene in modern humans that makes some people dislike a bitter chemical called phenylthiocarbamide, or PTC, was also present in Neanderthals hundreds of thousands of years ago.

The scientists made the discovery after recovering and sequencing a fragment of the TAS2R38 gene taken from 48,000-year-old Neanderthal bones found at a site in El Sidron, in northern Spain, they said in a report released Wednesday by the Spanish National Research Council (CSIC).

"This indicates that variation in bitter taste perception predates the divergence of the lineages leading to Neanderthals and modern humans," they said.

Substances similar to PTC give a bitter taste to green vegetables such as Brussels sprouts, broccoli and cabbage as well as some fruits.

But they are also present in some poisonous plants, so having a distaste for it makes evolutionary sense.

"The sense of bitter taste protects us from ingesting toxic substances," the report said.

[decimon]

Bitter harvest ping.

[decimon]

Sweet tooth?

[who_would_fardels_bear]

"The sense of bitter taste protects us from ingesting toxic substances"

That describes broccoli to a 'T'.

[wendy1946]

"This indicates that variation in bitter taste perception predates the divergence of the lineages leading to Neanderthals and modern humans," they said.

Humans and neanderthals are unrelated. The neanderthal has been ruled out as a plausible ancestor for modern man simply and precisely because the genetic gulf is too wide and the genetic gap between us and anything preceeding the neanderthal would have been wider. There is precisely nothing on this planet which we could be descended from via anything resembling evolution.

There has never been any "divergence of the lineages leading to Neanderthals and modern humans" and any similarities between us and neanderthals amount to similar design principles having been used.

[TomOnTheRun]

"These (bitter) compounds can be toxic if ingested in large quantities and it is therefore difficult to understand the evolutionary existence of individuals who cannot detect them."

And then there are people like me that not only don't taste the bitter but think the sprouts taste sweet. What sort of evolutionary advantage is it supposed to give me to think that something that might be poisonous is candy?

[a fool in paradise]

Ecoli scare.

[metmom]

Substances similar to PTC give a bitter taste to green vegetables such as Brussels sprouts, broccoli and cabbage as well as some fruits. But they are also present in some poisonous plants, so having a distaste for it makes evolutionary sense. "The sense of bitter taste protects us from ingesting toxic substances," the report said.

They've never seen a two year old in action.

[a fool in paradise]

So is there someone who has made a life's work out of examining fossilized neanderthal scat?

"Don't become an archeologist, little girl. You'll just grow up to brush the teeth of old monsters." < /Simpsons >

[blam]

"Sweet tooth?"

There was no such thing as Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower or Broccoli around when there were Neanderthals. These (and others) were all developed from the wild English cabbage plant in recent times.

[decimon]

There was no such thing as Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower or Broccoli around when there were Neanderthals.

Rereading, I see they don't claim there were such vegetables then. Those are just examples of plants carrying the bitter chemical.

[Reeses]

These (and others) were all developed from the wild English cabbage plant in recent times.

What were the cultivators thinking? Maybe it was a way to sell more butter or cheese, or as cheap pig food.

[wendy1946]

The whole world knows a little kid’s reaction to alcohol and tobacco is correct; why would anybody think that same kid’s reaction to green vegetables was wrong??

[Slings and Arrows]

So is there someone who has made a life's work out of examining fossilized neanderthal scat?

Did you ever have any doubts?

[MichiganMan]

Humans and neanderthals are unrelated. The neanderthal has been ruled out as a plausible ancestor for modern man simply and precisely because the genetic gulf is too wide and the genetic gap between us and anything preceeding the neanderthal would have been wider. There is precisely nothing on this planet which we could be descended from via anything resembling evolution.

If I understand you correctly, you seem to be under the impression that the article is saying that homo-sapiens descended from neandethals. 

Without addressing what appears to be your skeptisism in the theory of evolution, that's not what the article said.  Its saying (and this is the currently accepted view among evolution believers (of which I am one)) that homo-sapiens and neanderthals each diverged from a common line of ancensters, a third undetermined clasification of hominid, not one from the other. 

[MichiganMan]

skeptisism

Yep, that's me, spelling champ. sigh.

Anyways, reading over my post (which I obviously didn't do enough of before posting) I see that my statement regarding a third undetermined classification of hominid implies that there were no human species between the common ancestral species of homo-sapiens and neanderthals. I don't believe that has yet be determined one way or the other.

[wendy1946]

That’s not what I claimed. What I DID claim is that “too remote to be descended from” is a transitive relationship, i.e. that if the neanderthal is too remote for us to be descended from (he is), then so is anything further back in history.

[MichiganMan]

That’s not what I claimed. What I DID claim is that “too remote to be descended from” is a transitive relationship, i.e. that if the neanderthal is too remote for us to be descended from (he is), then so is anything further back in history.

Huh?  Why?  

[wendy1946]

If the proposition doesn’t seem obvious enough on the face of it, try looking at pictures of the so-called common ancestor (”archaic homo sapiens”). A neanderthal in a white shirt and tie would get funny looks in NYC in daylight but people wouldn’t turn tail and run. The archaic homo sapiens.... everybody would run.

[ElectricStrawberry]

YEah......SOOOOOOOOOOO different.

Too different to even be related in any manner.