Sea gives up Neanderthal fossil [ dredged up from the North Sea ]

BBC ^ | Monday, June 15, 2009 | Paul Rincon

[SunkenCiv]

Scientists in Leiden, in the Netherlands, have unveiled the specimen -- a fragment from the front of a skull belonging to a young adult male. Analysis of chemical "isotopes" in the 30,000-60,000-year-old fossil suggest a carnivorous diet, matching results from other Neanderthal specimens... The Neanderthal frontal bone is the first known "archaic" human specimen to have been recovered from the sea bed anywhere in the world. It was found among animal remains and stone artefacts dredged up 15km off the coast of the Netherlands in 2001. The fragment was spotted by Luc Anthonis, a private fossil collector from Belgium, in the sieving debris of a shell-dredging operation... The North Sea fossil also bears a lesion caused by a benign tumour -- an epidermoid cyst -- of a type very rare in humans today... Dr Mike Richards, also from the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig, analysed... isotopes, of the elements nitrogen and carbon in the fossilised bone... results show he was an extreme carnivore, surviving on a diet consisting largely of meat... other research suggests that in Gibraltar, on the southern coast of Iberia, some Neanderthals were exploiting marine resources, including dolphins, monk seals and mussels. Researchers decided against carbon dating the specimen; this requires the preservation of a protein called collagen. Professor Hublin explained that while there was some collagen left in the bone, scientists would have needed to destroy approximately half of the fossil in order to obtain enough for dating.

[Monkey Face]

*HAR*

[cripplecreek]

The idea that some early Americans came from europe is interesting. We really don’t have a clue when boats first arose and if they were much earlier than we think ther could easily be submerged along ancient shorelines.

The oversea distances needed to hop from europe to America would have been much less than they are today.

[SunkenCiv]

I agree.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks! There’s a recent related topic around here somewhere... let’s see...

Race to preserve the world’s oldest submerged town [ Pavlopetri in Greece ]
PhysOrg.com | May 11th, 2009 | University of Nottingham
Posted on 05/15/2009 6:00:07 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2251503/posts

[Dustbunny]

Wow, all that from one small chunk of bone. Amazing /sarc

[valkyry1]

You mean like the key words the evolutionists insert in threads they disapprove of?

[SunkenCiv]

The childishness of the participants in the cre/vo “debate” is exactly the same on both sides. Feel better now?

[pabianice]

Clearly the skull of a Gao'uld symbiote.

[SunkenCiv]

:’)

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

Well I’m no physician but I would think an epidermal cyst would be located in/on/about the epidermis, and how did that get fossilized and survive all those thousands of years in the North Sea?

[happinesswithoutpeace]

lol

[Mr. K]

Entire civilizations have been concocted from from bones like this.

Even an eloaborate story about the tribal life, dining arrangements, and family living conditions have been described using pieces like this to ‘prove’ evolution.

So... where are the missing links? just one? You know, the species where an ‘evolving’ fish only had half a set of legs that drew larger and larger until they waked on land?

They didn’t ‘evolve’ complete legs or wings all at once, did they?

[PapaBear3625]

The idea that some early Americans came from europe is interesting. We really don’t have a clue when boats first arose and if they were much earlier than we think ther could easily be submerged along ancient shorelines. The oversea distances needed to hop from europe to America would have been much less than they are today.

During the last Ice Age, there would have been a continuous walking path along the northern glacial ice. There probably would have been seals to hunt all along that path, too.

[fanfan]

They, could tell from that, that this is part of a neanderthal young male?

Outstanding.

[SunkenCiv]

Entire civilizations have been concocted from from bones like this.

Name one.

Even an eloaborate story about the tribal life, dining arrangements, and family living conditions have been described using pieces like this to 'prove' evolution.

Name one.

So... where are the missing links? just one? You know, the species where an 'evolving' fish only had half a set of legs that drew larger and larger until they waked on land? They didn’t 'evolve' complete legs or wings all at once, did they?

This news story is about Neandertal. Despite the fact that this fossilized fragment of a formerly living man was found on the sea bottom, Neandertal wasn't a fish.

[SunkenCiv]

I believe they said it was rare in modern populations. Reading this, I’m glad of that:

Epidermal cyst and osteolysis of the cranial vault [Article in French]
Guillaud V, Remond J, Balme B, Moulin G.
Service de Dermatologie, Hopital de l’Antiquaille, Lyon.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1304688
In a 40-year old man undergoing, under local anaesthesia, excision of an epidermal cyst located in the frontal region, at the border of the scalp, the operator had difficulties in removing the deep part of the cyst and perceived an underlying bone depression. The depression was caused by a 2 x 1.3 cm wide lacuna in the calvarium, which was subsequently treated by neurosurgeons. Histology showed only fragments of a simple epidermal cyst wall and no evidence of dermoid cyst. The causes of osteolysis associated with congenital or acquired skin lesions are reviewed. In this case, the old age and volume of the cyst may explain the osteolysis by mechanical compression. This case is exceptional since we were unable to find other examples in the literature, apart from dermoid and trichilemmal cysts.

[SunkenCiv]

· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach · · join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·
	Antiquity Journal  & archive  Archaeologica  Archaeology  Archaeology Channel  BAR  Bronze Age Forum  Discovery  Dogpile  Eurekalert  Google  LiveScience  Mirabilis.ca  Nat Geographic  PhysOrg  Science Daily  Science News  Texas AM  Yahoo  Excerpt, or Link only?	Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution. The Neandertal Enigma by James Shreeve in local libraries Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127] To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
· History topic · history keyword · archaeology keyword · paleontology keyword · · Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·

[SunkenCiv]

another one.

[SunkenCiv]

[SunkenCiv]

• Neanderthal may not be the oldest Dutchman [ 370,000 years B.P. ] [2010]