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Is Recession Preparing a New Breed of Survivalist? [Survival Today - an On going Thread #2]
May 05th,2008

Posted on 02/09/2009 12:36:11 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny

Yahoo ran an interesting article this morning indicating a rise in the number of survivalist communities cropping up around the country. I have been wondering myself how much of the recent energy crisis is causing people to do things like stockpile food and water, grow their own vegetables, etc. Could it be that there are many people out there stockpiling and their increased buying has caused food prices to increase? It’s an interesting theory, but I believe increased food prices have more to do with rising fuel prices as cost-to-market costs have increased and grocers are simply passing those increases along to the consumer. A recent stroll through the camping section of Wal-Mart did give me pause - what kinds of things are prudent to have on hand in the event of a worldwide shortage of food and/or fuel? Survivalist in Training

I’ve been interested in survival stories since I was a kid, which is funny considering I grew up in a city. Maybe that’s why the idea of living off the land appealed to me. My grandfather and I frequently took camping trips along the Blue Ridge Parkway and around the Smoky Mountains. Looking back, some of the best times we had were when we stayed at campgrounds without electricity hookups, because it forced us to use what we had to get by. My grandfather was well-prepared with a camp stove and lanterns (which ran off propane), and when the sun went to bed we usually did along with it. We played cards for entertainment, and in the absence of televisions, games, etc. we shared many great conversations. Survivalist in the Neighborhood


TOPICS: Agriculture; Food; Gardening; Pets/Animals
KEYWORDS: barter; canning; cwii; dehydration; disaster; disasterpreparedness; disasters; diy; emergency; emergencyprep; emergencypreparation; food; foodie; freeperkitchen; garden; gardening; granny; loquat; makeamix; medlars; nespola; nwarizonagranny; obamanomics; preparedness; prepper; recession; repository; shinypenny; shtf; solaroven; stinkbait; survival; survivalist; survivallist; survivaltoday; teotwawki; wcgnascarthread
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To: Eagle50AE

Ronald Reagan Address to U.S. 2012<<<

Thanks for the link...


6,861 posted on 04/23/2009 6:20:43 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2181392/posts?page=1 [Survival,food,garden,crafts,and more)
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion

I know it sounds high, but it is being done....

43,560 square feet in an acre of well augmented soil, plastic mulch with permanent drip feeding irrigation - investment of about $20,000 and much much labor...

It is about inline with other crops too - corn silage, hybrid poplars and willows yield from 15 and up to 20 Tons per acre per year, tomatoes can do higher (actually 40 tons). Cabbage, head lettuce, carrots can do it too.


6,862 posted on 04/23/2009 6:22:00 AM PDT by DelaWhere ("Without power over our own food, any notion of democracy is empty." - Frances Moore Lappe)
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To: Wneighbor

Oh my.... a recipe for Cotlets!!! I have loved those since I lived in Washington state for a short time back in the ‘70’s!!<<<

Good, I am glad that you like the recipe, you have missed a wild collection of posts, while you were hard at work in the garden, but they will still be here, when time slows down for you.


6,863 posted on 04/23/2009 6:23:52 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2181392/posts?page=1 [Survival,food,garden,crafts,and more)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

>>> Subject: Next Winter Olympics <<<

Thank You , I needed a good laff this morning..


6,864 posted on 04/23/2009 6:25:04 AM PDT by Eagle50AE (Pray for our Armed Forces.)
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To: Wneighbor

Yahooo!!!
Was getting worried about you.
Still have another week before we are past frost date...
They are calling for mid to low 30’s tonight.

Congratulations on the new title...

Any good news on property?


6,865 posted on 04/23/2009 6:32:26 AM PDT by DelaWhere ("Without power over our own food, any notion of democracy is empty." - Frances Moore Lappe)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

>>>My dirty mind makes me want to ask “How much of a donation tot he campaign fund will they have to make, to get her into using chemicals?”<<<

Great minds.....
I wondered the same thing...


6,866 posted on 04/23/2009 6:33:39 AM PDT by DelaWhere ("Without power over our own food, any notion of democracy is empty." - Frances Moore Lappe)
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To: Wneighbor

>>>nekkid women.<<<

So maybe that is what I did wrong... Planted the nekkid oats and only a few sprouted - tilled it up.

I didn’t realize it meant nekkid oats had to be planted by nekkid women... Maybe I will try it the right way next year.

Volunteers?


6,867 posted on 04/23/2009 6:48:40 AM PDT by DelaWhere ("Without power over our own food, any notion of democracy is empty." - Frances Moore Lappe)
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To: Eagle50AE

US Marches Toward A Financial Disaster Worse Than Anyone Thinks

The Advocate
By Herb Denenberg, The Bulletin
Thursday, April 23, 2009
This column will show you that:

• Barack Obama’s financial disaster will be much worse than you probably think. That’s because there is another even bigger financial disaster lurking ahead and that will start to come into play in a few short years.

• There are alternatives to the Obama-style socialist health-care reforms. The Obama reform that will compound our financial crisis and create a health-care crisis

• You can find better thinking and analysis on our major public policy questions in a free publication than you can in many of the expensive periodicals and newspapers you may be subscribing to.

The Metrics Of Our Financial Disaster

Before I get into the metrics of disaster, let me credit the source of what follows — an article by Dr. John C Goodman, a fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis, titled “A Prescription for American Health Care,” that appeared in the March 2009 issue of Imprimis, a free publication of Hillsdale College with more than 1,700,000 monthly readers. (For a free subscription, e-mail imprimus@hillsdale

college.edu or call 800-437-2268.) I find more wisdom in one issue of this publication than in 10 years of most of The New York Times and The Philadelphia Inquirer rolled into one.

Mr. Goodman bowls you over with this opening statement: “When you get through the economic time we’re in right now, we’re going to be confronted with an even bigger problem.”

There are 78 million baby boomers now starting to sign up for early retirement under Social Security and, in two years, they will start signing up for Medicare. The problem is that the federal government has put no money aside to pay these obligations and appears to be the inspiration for Bernie Madoff’s Ponzi scheme. The government will make Mr. Madoff look like a two-bit chiseler by comparison.

The Trustees of Social Security estimate a current unfunded liability of $100 trillion in 2009. To handle the payments will require either a crushing tax increase or a crushing cutback in benefits.

If that doesn’t knock you over — even in the age of Obama, $100 trillion is still a lot of money — it gets worse. The unfunded liability of Medicare is six times larger in terms of unfunded obligations than that of Social Security. So if you’re keeping score, that’s already $700 trillion in unfunded liability. That’s more than 45 times the size of our entire economy.

If you think this is the sky-is-falling blues for a far out time, think again. In 2012, Social Security and Medicare will need one of every 10 general income tax dollars to cover their combined deficits. By 2020, that goes to one of every four general income tax dollars. And by 2030, the midpoint of the baby boomer avalanche, it will take one of every two income tax dollars.

Don’t relax yet. That analysis doesn’t even include Medicaid, which is almost as large a problem as Medicare. Even the Congressional Budget Office, controlled by the Democrats in Congress, says that by mid-century, Medicare and Medicaid are going to crowd out everything else the government does. In other words, the government will only be able to pay for Medicare and Medicaid, and nothing else such as defense, energy, education, etc.

If the federal government wants to continue to do what it is doing now, that would mean, according to the Congressional Budget Office, that a middle-income family would have to pay two-thirds of its income in taxes.

If you think it can’t get worse, it does. Private sector employer-funded pension plans are not fully funded, but are backed by a federal insurance scheme, which is also not fully funded. This generates a potential taxpayer liability of between $500 billion and $1 trillion.

On top of that, almost none of post-retirement health-care promises of private employers are funded. And state and local post-retirement health funds are also not funded. If you want to know what that means, some California localities have already declared bankruptcy because of employee retirement plans, and the first of the baby boomers is only 63 years old.

A Health-Care Solution

So we have to start fixing things or, as Mr. Goodman says, “Cleaning up the mess.” Mr. Goodman comes up with some new approaches, demonstrating that we don’t have to go down the Obama socialism approach, which will only compound our financial problems.

Mr. Goodman’s solutions consist of liberating patients and doctors and pre-funding the system as we move forward.

By liberating the patients, he means giving them more control of their money. He would start by designating one-third of their Medicare dollars to be under their own control. The patient would be able to pay for medical expenses with that money and would control that money. Mr. Goodman documents how patients in control of their own health savings accounts are far more prudent and economical in their consumption than government-controlled dollars.

He would liberate doctors by permitting them to re-price and re-package their services just as every other profession does. Now Medicare says this is what we pay for, this is what we don’t pay for, and this is the amount we will pay. That may make no sense in terms of what a doctor should be doing.

For example, why are there so few telephone, e-mail and Skype (sound and video) consultations? Why haven’t we utilized something faster and often more efficient than an office visit? Why haven’t we capitalized on the wonders of a new information technology? Because Medicare decided what is to be paid for, and it doesn’t pay for those alternatives to an office visit. And insurance companies follow Medicare’s lead. The e-mail is a spectacular way of communicating with doctors, yet only about 2 percent of doctors and patients e-mail each other.

Why have we lagged in the use of the marvels of electronic records? Again, it is because of what Medicare doesn’t pay for. So Dr. Goodman concludes,

“If we want to move medicine into the 21st century, we have to give doctors and hospitals the freedom to re-price and re-package their services in ways that neither increase the cost to government nor decrease the quality of service to the patient.”

He also recommends measures to improve quality. Now, 17 percent of Medicare patients who have surgery re-enter the hospital because of a problem connected with the initial surgery. So the hospital makes money on its mistakes. So he recommends a warranty on surgery, forcing hospitals to compete on quality.

And to make this all work, we have to start pre-funding the system. So Mr. Goodman recommends everyone should start putting money into a health care retirement account — perhaps 2 percent from employees and 2 percent from employers. These funds would be invested and be used to fund retirement health care, thus taking the burden off of taxpayers. He summarizes this approach:

“[I]f health care consumers are allowed to save and spend their own money, and if doctors are allowed to act like entrepreneurs — in other words if we allow the market to work — there is every reason to believe that health care costs can be prevented from rising faster than our incomes.”

And perhaps one of the most revealing aspects of Mr. Goodman’s article is his documentation of how the market works when given a chance. I won’t relate all of his impressive examples, but here is one of them.

Plastic surgery is one segment of the medical system largely not covered by insurance. That means the market operates. Doctors act as entrepreneurs rather than robots and puppets controlled by Medicare and insurance companies. So what happens to the cosmetic surgery market?

Over the last 15 years, the price of plastic surgery has been going down, while almost every other kind of surgery has been going up. What’s more surprising is that the cosmetic surgery price trend has continued even though the number of people getting plastic surgery has increased by five- or six-fold.

Here’s Dr. Goodman’s final punch line:

“Continuing our current path — allowing health care costs to rise at twice the rate of income under the aegis of an unworkable government Ponzi scheme — is by comparison unreasonable.”

Perhaps the most important accomplishment of this excellent work by Dr. Goodman is to suggest what we need on health care is some thinking. It doesn’t even have to be out of the box, but it has to be thinking about all of our health care options. And we have to stop worshipping on the altar of national health insurance (however named), which has been demonstrated to be a failing system wherever tried.

The Obama administration has to stop saluting its radical, leftist, socialist base and start going back to basics and rethinking problems and coming up with appropriate solutions.

Herb Denenberg is a former Pennsylvania Insurance Commissioner, Pennsylvania Public Utility Commissioner, and professor at the Wharton School. He is a longtime Philadelphia journalist and consumer advocate. He is also a member of the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of the Sciences. His column appears daily in The Bulletin. You can reach him at advocate@thebulletin.us.

http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/04/23/herb_denenberg/doc49f024d471152996180582.txt


6,868 posted on 04/23/2009 7:07:40 AM PDT by DelaWhere ("Without power over our own food, any notion of democracy is empty." - Frances Moore Lappe)
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To: DelaWhere

I didn’t realize it meant nekkid oats had to be planted by nekkid women... Maybe I will try it the right way next year.

Volunteers?<<<

Sure....laughing like a loony bird, as I imagine a bunch of nakkid great grand mothers, sowing wild oats, under a full moon, on a snowy field.

and then explaining to the judge, “No your honor, we are not insane, we are Freepers, helping Cal plant his “nakkid” oats and he said we had to do it ‘nakkid’.....

“No, your honor, we were not drunk or doped up, we are Freepers!!!”


6,869 posted on 04/23/2009 7:10:40 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2181392/posts?page=1 [Survival,food,garden,crafts,and more)
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To: Eagle50AE

>>> Subject: Next Winter Olympics <<<

Thank You , I needed a good laff this morning..<<<

That is the reason I posted it, it is no fun laughing alone.


6,870 posted on 04/23/2009 7:13:19 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2181392/posts?page=1 [Survival,food,garden,crafts,and more)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

>>>Don’t over do it and who cares if the laundry piles up, you don’t need many clothes in the summer...wear a wet towel and you will get more help in the garden.<<<

Okay, Lloyd was dragging himself out of bed about the time that post hit. He is all for your idea. We may have created a monster. LOL


6,871 posted on 04/23/2009 7:23:34 AM PDT by Wneighbor
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To: nw_arizona_granny

>>>but they will still be here, when time slows down for you.<<<

That is, if I can read fast enough to keep up with current and catch up at the same time!


6,872 posted on 04/23/2009 7:25:11 AM PDT by Wneighbor
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To: DelaWhere

>>>Still have another week before we are past frost date...<<<

See, I put that note about the frost dates in there cause I knew you’d still be waiting. My taters bloomed last week. They’re a winter thing anyway, but I’m waiting to get them harvested to plant the watermelons.

>>>Congratulations on the new title...<<<

Thank you. LOL... I wouldn’t have dared taken the title for myself, I still have too much to learn. But, other people refering to me as that makes me smile.


6,873 posted on 04/23/2009 7:28:10 AM PDT by Wneighbor
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To: DelaWhere

>>> didn’t realize it meant nekkid oats had to be planted by nekkid women... Maybe I will try it the right way next year.<<<

You and Lloyd are getting along famously this morning. He’s all for the nekkid gardening idea, oats or no oats.

I told him he is definitely going to have to find me a remote/secluded place if he wants any nekkid gardening!


6,874 posted on 04/23/2009 7:32:43 AM PDT by Wneighbor
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To: nw_arizona_granny; DelaWhere

>>>>Sure....laughing like a loony bird, as I imagine a bunch of nakkid great grand mothers, sowing wild oats, under a full moon, on a snowy field.<<<<

Laughing with you both!!!

I can see it now. Cal and Lloyd sitting on the sidelines watching us grandmotherly people, nekkid, planting the nekkid oat patch under the full moon. Guess you’re ready to replant that patch now aren’t ya? Full moon’s in 2 weeks.


6,875 posted on 04/23/2009 7:35:27 AM PDT by Wneighbor
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To: nw_arizona_granny; DelaWhere

Time I gotta quit chatting. I’m now in the middle of taking down the stick and plastic greenhouse on the back porch. Need to get that done before it gets blistering hot today.


6,876 posted on 04/23/2009 7:37:22 AM PDT by Wneighbor
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To: All

Seed sales growing as garden boom hits B.C.

Several B.C. seed and plant retailers say business is blooming this year, and the
recession, rising food prices and star power may be feeding British Columbians’
growing enthusiasm for gardening.

West Coast Seeds owner Jeanette McCall told CBC News she had expected a busy year
at the Delta facility, shipping vegetable and flower seeds to customers, but not
this busy.

Stocks of packaged seeds that were supposed to last all season were running out
before March.


Earth Day at the Vancouver Compost Garden - Honda’s Insight Introduced in Canada

Garry Sowerby, who is in the “Guinness Book of World Records” for the record time
of driving around the world, visited us at the Vancouver Compost Garden this Earth
Day morning, as part of his cross-country trip to introduce the country to Honda’s
‘greenest’ car, the Insight.

Gary says, “We are doing an environmental program called Insight into Canada that
hinges on a month-long environmental journey across Canada starting on April 21
in Victoria. The drive will be implemented in a new Honda Insight Hybrid and will
see 25 teams of journalists hand the car off over 25 legs on the trek.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More on these stories here.
City Farmer News [http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102559525020&s=1304&e=001-DSJM2lqNx0Pl8YOMk1OOICAZVpSXMlBQB_FCUpJW_MA9iG0b8qbQkpqv4ky7slxqdYntdGcIXXrIGpQnZzwSBHWKa5ITYkRBk80UV6e8xfEcOrv3BNNDg==]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Michael Levenston
City Farmer - Canada’s Office of Urban Agriculture


6,877 posted on 04/23/2009 8:20:05 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2181392/posts?page=1 [Survival,food,garden,crafts,and more)
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To: nw_arizona_granny

Wneighbor seems to be proof of the following:

Home Garden Economics

April 20, 2009
Examiner.com - USA

The ‘so-called’ “Great Recession” can’t remain balanced where it is. It will either fall off the fence on the side of prosperity or it will plunge into the darkness of a full-blown depression. If you were paying attention in junior high school, you know that economic depressions are bad news.

A personal garden is a hedge against starvation and can even be a source of income when most other sources have dried up. Not only does your family continue to need to eat, but so does everyone else.

So, let’s take a look at the economics involved and see if gardening is a ‘good fit’ for your wallet and table. There is a project in Milwaukee that grows $500,000 worth of produce on only two inner-city acres. Do the math and you’ll see that a _ acre building lot can “make the difference” for almost anyone. In fact, an extra $62,500 a year could end our need to punch a clock forever.

If you buy a packet of tomato seeds and start it indoors, you will spend something less than $2.00 for roughly 50 seeds. Fifty tomato plants in 2” pots — which is what you will have in about 2 months — would have cost you roughly $150.

But, let’s follow that packet of seeds a bit further through the season.

With 12 plants, my wife and I have tomatoes through the summer and some to put away. In fact, we are still drinking tomato juice that we canned in 2003 when we put away over 100 quarts of juice before running out of jars. The total that year for our garden of 240 sq. ft. was roughly 300 quarts and nearly as many pints.

If you have a larger family to care for and you keep 25 of those plants for your own needs, you could easily sell the others for $2.00 each. That’s $50 cash in your pocket for a $2.00 investment in seeds, room on an old table and a spot in a cold frame once the weather broke. You are now $48.00 to the good and the tomato plants you kept are effectively free of charge.

The 25 you now set into the ground are going to give you somewhere between 4 pounds and 20 pounds (or more) of fruit each. Unless you planted cherry tomatoes, it’s a mighty poor tomato plant that only yields 4 pounds of fruit. Your tomatoes are now worth from $4 to $20 apiece. And, at just $1.00 a pound for organically grown produce, that is definitely the lower end. Delegate a child to sell the excess from your driveway.

So, doing the math, we find that we spent about $12.00 for a packet of seeds and planting materials. The excess plants were sold for (at least) $50.00 and we realized between $100 and $500 in produce for ourselves plus whatever we sold. All this from about 80-120 square feet of soil.

The Department of Agriculture says that the amortized cost of canning a quart of home-grown produce is about ten cents. Those are old numbers, so call it 25 cents. That makes the home-canned product cost about _ cent per ounce vs 8 or more cents for the salty, ‘chemically enhanced’, commercial product. Food you can for yourself is better than what you can buy and costs only a fraction of the store-bought product.

When you “do the math”, gardening makes perfect sense. And might even be your escape hatch from the pincers that are closing around your neighbors.

http://www.examiner.com/x-5189-Detroit-Organic-Gardening-Examiner~y2009m4d20-Home-garden-economics


6,878 posted on 04/23/2009 8:35:19 AM PDT by DelaWhere ("Without power over our own food, any notion of democracy is empty." - Frances Moore Lappe)
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To: All

Americans Oppose Most Farm Subsidies

Questionnaire/Methodology (PDF)

As the Obama administration has sought to cut farm subsidies for next year’s budget they have encountered strong resistance, especially in farm states. However a new WorldPublicOpinion.org poll finds that the American public, including in farm states, would favor eliminating most farm subsidies.

(Photo: Eric Allix Rogers)

Eighty percent of US subsidies go to large farming businesses, however only 36 percent of Americans favor such subsidies while 61 percent oppose them. Opposition to subsidies for large farms was not substantively or statistically different among Republicans (62%), Democrats (60%), and independents (59%).

Seventy-seven percent of Americans do, however, favor providing subsidies to small farms (i.e. farms under 500 acres). Support is highest among Democrats (82%), followed by Republicans (73%) and then Independents (69%). Most small farms do not receive subsidies.

The public in farm states has views of farm subsidies that are little different than residents of non-farm states. In the 17 states that receive the largest amount of farm subsidies, just 35 percent of the public favors subsidies to large farming businesses, compared to 37 percent in non-farm states. There is support for subsidies for small farms in both farm states (79%) and non-farm states (75%).

Americans are also at odds with the way that farm subsidies are provided. Most subsidies are provided on a regular annual basis, independent of whether it was a good year or a bad year for the farmer. However only minorities of Americans think that subsidies should be provided on a regular annual basis, whether for small farms (37%) or large farms (15%).

Here again views in farm states are not significantly different from the rest of the country. Only minorities approve of providing subsidies on a regular annual basis to small farms (39%) or large farms (13%).

Steven Kull, director of WorldPublicOpinion.org comments, “Clearly, US policy on farm subsidies is far out of step with the preferences of the American public. The vast majority of US subsidies go to large farming businesses on a regular annual basis. However only one in three Americans approve of subsidies to large farming businesses and less than one in six approve doing so on a regular annual basis.”

US farm subsidies have been a major stumbling block in trade negotiations, with developing countries refusing to open their markets any further as long as the US and other developed countries continue to give their farmers the advantage of subsidies. Steven Kull comments, “While the public would oppose eliminating all farm subsidies, the scope of subsidies the public supports is so much narrower than is currently provided that, if the public’s preferences were followed, this would largely remove the current obstacle in trade negotiations.”

The poll was conducted with a nationwide sample of 765 from March 25 to April 6, 2009. The margin of error is plus or minus 3.7 percent.

The poll was fielded by Knowledge Networks using its nationwide panel, which is randomly selected from the entire adult population and subsequently provided Internet access. For more information about this methodology, go to www.knowledgenetworks.com/ganp.

WorldPublicOpinion.org is a project managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland. Funding for this research was provided by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund and the Calvert Foundation.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/602.php?nid=&id=&pnt=602&lb=


6,879 posted on 04/23/2009 9:19:07 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2181392/posts?page=1 [Survival,food,garden,crafts,and more)
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To: Wneighbor

Okay, Lloyd was dragging himself out of bed about the time that post hit. He is all for your idea. We may have created a monster. LOL<<<

Always glad to help.


6,880 posted on 04/23/2009 9:25:18 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2181392/posts?page=1 [Survival,food,garden,crafts,and more)
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