Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Rare Lead Bars Discovered Off The Coast Of Ibiza May Be Carthaginian Munitions
Science News ^ | Tuesday, December 16, 2008 | source: University of Cologne

Posted on 12/17/2008 7:39:02 AM PST by SunkenCiv

One of the bars has Iberian characters on it. According to the German Mining Museum in Bochum, the lead originates from the mines of Sierra Morena in southern Spain... A fourth specimen had already been found on an earlier occasion. The characters on the upper surfaces of two of the four known bars are syllabary symbols from the script of Northeastern Iberian... The meaning of the characters has not yet been determined, however, the dating of the objects to the third century B.C., i.e. the period of the Second Punic War, raises further questions. The reason for this is that there is very little evidence for the downsizing of silver works in the Sierra Morena region for this period. There is, however, evidence for this in the mining area around Cartagena in the eastern part of the Iberian Peninsula, i.e. the language area of Northeastern Iberian. For this reason, scientists suspect that the raw lead was processed and branded in this area, before it was placed on board a freighter that was shipwrecked off the north coast of Ibiza. The destination planned for the lead remains unknown. The reason why the lead was transported from the Spanish mainland to the Balearic Islands, even though silver mines were in operation on the islands, has not been established. During antiquity, lead was a by-product of silver mining and used mainly for coinage. Dr. Hermanns therefore assumes that the lead was used as munitions for mercenaries provided by the Baleareans during antiquity.

(Excerpt) Read more at sciencedaily.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: carthage; carthaginians; godsgravesglyphs; iberia; phoenicia; phoenicians
Dr. Marcus Heinrich Hermanns from the Department of Archaeology at the University of Cologne has recovered three lead bars which may originate from the third century before Christ, 39 meters under the sea off the north coast of Ibiza. (Credit: Image courtesy of University of cologne, Universitaet zu Koeln)
Rare Lead Bars Discovered Off The Coast Of Ibiza May Be Carthaginian Munitions

1 posted on 12/17/2008 7:39:03 AM PST by SunkenCiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


2 posted on 12/17/2008 7:39:23 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
During antiquity, lead was a by-product of silver mining and used mainly for coinage. Dr. Hermanns therefore assumes that the lead was used as munitions

The writer's thought process seems to have gone off the rails here.

3 posted on 12/17/2008 7:42:30 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
During antiquity, lead was a by-product of silver mining and used mainly for coinage. Dr. Hermanns therefore assumes that the lead was used as munitions for mercenaries provided by the Baleareans during antiquity.

Lead was used for coins, and therefore it was ammunition? What ... they're gonna throw money at the other side?

I can maybe see lead being used for sling shots, but wouldn't it would be a millenium before lead had any utility in weaponry.

4 posted on 12/17/2008 7:43:31 AM PST by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

Ibiza is the dance club capital of the world. I think the divers there are confused amidst all the glo-sticks and used condoms floating offshore.


5 posted on 12/17/2008 7:46:36 AM PST by KingOfVagabonds
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: r9etb

:’) Lead was used as shot long before gunpowder, it was very useful, and manufactured as needed. Then as now, soldiers in hand-to-hand resorted to throwing stones when the ammo ran low. The Romans had artillery, but no gunpowder.


6 posted on 12/17/2008 7:47:05 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

I think he meant, the silver was used for coinage, or perhaps the editor mangled it. I’m sure the BBC will correct it once they see the criticism here on FR. ;’D


7 posted on 12/17/2008 7:48:02 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
I agree the intent seems clear, but the wording is very mangled.

I remember reading about the Balearic slingers -- very good auxiliary troops for the Romans across many centuries. I had assumed that they hurled stones, but lead shot of a certain size would have been ideal.

8 posted on 12/17/2008 7:52:36 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
The reason why the lead was transported from the Spanish mainland to the Balearic Islands, even though silver mines were in operation on the islands, has not been established.

Allow me to speculate:

Sailing ships need ballast in the keel to keep from capsizing when the wind blows on their sails. Normally this ballast is taken out of the ship only when it is beached for repairs or recaulking if it's seams.

When the Spanish returned from the New World with gold and silver, they removed the ballast from their keels and replaced it with gold and silver, thus allowing the maximum cargo for the voyage home.

My theory is that ships were sailing to the Balearic Islands with lead ballast, removing it, and returning to the mainland with silver ballast (as cargo.) Usually, rock was used as ballast, but if you have to remove it and replace it on a regular basis, it might have been faster to physically remove a smaller volume of lead than it is a larger volume of equal weight rock.

9 posted on 12/17/2008 7:57:11 AM PST by Yo-Yo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

Yeah, it would be more compact for the mass, and really drill through the air (hence its use in bullets) and into an eye, or a skull.


10 posted on 12/17/2008 7:57:50 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
I remember reading about the Balearic slingers -- very good auxiliary troops for the Romans across many centuries. I had assumed that they hurled stones, but lead shot of a certain size would have been ideal.

If they couldn't get Depleted Uranium

11 posted on 12/17/2008 7:58:15 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (Kill the English their concept of individual rights might undermine the power of our beloved tyrants)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: r9etb

> but wouldn’t it would be a millenium before lead had any utility in weaponry.

Else I’m mistaken, I believe the antient Greeks used to cast lead into hunks of a standard size, weight and shape and use them in their slings — you know, Goliath-style. Because they were standard-sized a sling-man could reliably practise and shoot for accuracy. It was a significant technological advance over hucking odd-sized rocks out of slings: lead is denser, too, so it hit with a better whallop than a similar-sized rock did.


12 posted on 12/17/2008 8:03:25 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

13 posted on 12/17/2008 8:19:23 AM PST by JoeProBono ( Loose Associations - Postcards from My Mind)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
The writer's thought process seems to have gone off the rails here.

Why else would they need more lead than the silver mines produced as a byproduct?

14 posted on 12/17/2008 8:27:47 AM PST by null and void (Hey 0bama? There will be a pop quiz every day for the next four years...miss a question, people die.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

......The meaning of the characters has not yet been determined,...

The message is thought by some to be a warning against eating and contacting lead poisoning. Socioanthropologists specializing in old toxicity mortality records at UMASS are very interested.


15 posted on 12/17/2008 8:51:20 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Save America......... put out lots of wafarin (it's working))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

i agree about the Balerian slinger auxilleries who were a famous part of the Roman forces.

At another thread recently the story referred to some lead ‘Shot” that were found which looked like musket balls and were ysed by slingers


16 posted on 12/17/2008 9:10:34 AM PST by wildbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Yo-Yo

Works for me!


17 posted on 12/17/2008 2:24:51 PM PST by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

:’) I’m stealin’ that.

http://www.guyandrodd.com/galleries/?g=fridays&i=14


18 posted on 12/17/2008 2:43:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Yo-Yo

Not a bad idea. :’)


19 posted on 12/17/2008 2:46:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
"I’m stealin’ that"

Fine but no shadow funny business


20 posted on 12/17/2008 3:20:44 PM PST by JoeProBono ( Loose Associations - Postcards from My Mind)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson