The Official Weekend Singles Thread—July 28-30

OhioWfan, Kate of Spice Island, Maximus Ridiculousness

[Maximus_Ridiculousness]

A perspective on marriage, looking for a marriage partner, and cyberdating. 

Presented to you by OhioWfan, Kate of Spice Island, and Maximus Ridiculousness.

OhioWfan's Perspective on Making Marriage Work:

My 'assignment' for this special weekend singles thread was to outline what I believe are the ingredients of a long-term successful, loving marriage.  Obviously, in the 'it takes two to tango' spirit, I engaged my adorable life-partner/incredible husband in the task, and together we compiled a list of recommendations and qualities that we believe have made our marriage work so well.   Neither of us is perfect (especially me........he's close!), but we went into marriage with commitment and thought as well as love, and after 30 years we are more passionately in love than ever before, and are each other's deepest and most trusted friend.

 

We have grouped our thoughts in two categories.......considerations before marriage, and goals as part of marriage.   There is nothing new nor revolutionary here, but we believe these things together have worked to make our marriage incredibly close, and a lot of fun. They are generally applicable, with some specific illustrative examples of our own relationship. 

 

I.    Important things to consider prior to marriage

• Be picky.  Being single is FAR better than being married to the wrong person.  (Women, you are not 'incomplete' without a man......withstand the cultural pressure to get married early).  Wait for the right one, and don't go into marriage with the idea that you can 'fix' the other person.  It doesn't work out that way.

• My personal best advice: Marry somebody much nicer than yourself.  It worked for me. :)

• Become best friends.   Friendship is the most important part of marriage.  Feelings ebb and flow, and circumstances change, but if your spouse is your closest friend, you can weather anything.

• Talk all the time about everything:  Goals, values, beliefs, dreams, raising children and the values and beliefs you want to teach them, money, sex, interests, (politics!).  Make sure you know exactly who you are marrying, and remember that you are going to be sharing a lifetime together so you need to get along.

• Restrain your physical relationship to ensure that a REAL relationship develops. (The current advice is wrong!  You don't need any physical relationship before marriage to find out if it's 'going to work.'  In fact, we believe it 'works' better if you don't).  A great deal of the complete trust that we have in each other stems from the fact that we, with great difficulty, disciplined ourselves to stay pure before we were married.  For us it has made a big difference.

II.    In Marriage

• Communication.  Keep talking about anything and everything, good and bad, but do it with respect ALWAYS.   When you are upset, saying 'It seems to me' and 'It feels like you...'  shows far more respect and calms the waters better than saying 'You do this.'   Keep sharing your goals and dreams and help each other to achieve them.

• Honesty.  (None of this sneaky hinting around to get your own way, ladies).  Tell the truth right out front.  It's refreshing, and it leads to a healthy, non-manipulative relationship.  Don't make your spouse 'guess' about how you feel, and never 'assume' that he/she already knows it. 

• Trust.  It has to be built.   Having shared values is the beginning of trust; living up to those values makes it grow.

• Common values.  Nurture the ones you have discussed prior to marriage. 

 

• Common spiritual goals.  Go to church/synagogue together regularly.  Discuss your faith as it grows.   Read together and discuss what God's word says.   We have, from the beginning, sought to have a marriage that is God-centered, and believe that the depth and joy in our relationship are directly related to God's blessing on our lives.  We both came from strong Christian homes, and knew that it was our goal to have a Christ-centered family, and have worked and prayed to that end.

• A sense of humor.   Laugh often.  Don't take most things too seriously, and be able to laugh at your own foibles.  We happen to have a quirky family with some really off-beat people in it (not me, of course).  That's part of our family identity, and we're proud of it.  We know that other people may think we're a bit weird, but we're OK with that........because we ARE. :)   Oh..........but watch the sarcasm.   If uncontrolled, it can cut deep.

• Random acts of kindness.   I happen to be the recipient of many of these in our relationship.  My husband randomly brings home a lovely red rose with a card that just says "I love you."  It makes my heart melt.

• Encourage and compliment often.  Even if you've said the same thing a million times before, say it again...."You're cute" is a good one.  You can't help but feel loved if your spouse thinks you're adorable at the age of 56!

• Don't let minor irritations blow up into major issues.  Talk about them, but don't overplay their importance. Chances are that a few of them will still be there even after 30 years. :)   Toothpaste tube stuff just isn't worth being mad about.

• Apologize, apologize, apologize.   Sometimes you may think you're only partially to blame, but saying you're sorry for your part in a problem only helps in its solution.  (Note.......I do this a lot because I am often entirely to blame).

• Support each other's interests even if not your own passion.  We have a good example in our relationship.  I love Nelson Eddy/Jeanette MacDonald movies.   Mr. O thinks they're OK, but he watches one whenever I've got a hankering to.... just because he loves me.  And I will watch "Man from Snowy River" with him for the 137th time for the same reason.

• Nurture your relationship.  Protect it from jobs, kids, etc.  According to James Dobson, the best way to love your kids is to love their Mom.  He's right.  We always let our kids know that our relationship came first and they never had a problem with it.  Now that they're adults, they really respect the relationship that they observed growing up and have it as the goal for their own lives.

• Time alone.  Keep 'dating.'  Go off for romantic trysts together.  Set aside time for yourselves because it doesn't just appear.  And if you have kids, try not to talk about them the entire time you're away.  We have celebrated the anniversary of our first date many years, and this year (30th anniversary!) we went to the same restaurant in Pennsylvania that we went to on our first date.  Talk about romantic!

• Hold hands and kiss.........a lot!   This is most likely self-explanatory, but it may need to be said that holding hands is vastly underrated as a sensual tool to keep you 'in touch.'  Sit close in church.   Kiss each other at random moments.   Cuddle at the movies.  Hug whenever possible. It makes a difference.

• Say "I love you" every chance you get.  Make it the last thing you say every time you talk, and just say it 'out of the blue.'  It never gets old to know you are loved.

• Be sexual outside the bedroom (in private!).  No details needed here.  Keep the flame burning.

• Pray together.....any time, any place, any circumstances, and pray for each other.  Most of all, thank God for your husband or wife..........it is a great gift to have a life-partner with whom to share the good and bad times of life.  Be thankful.

• Give and keep giving.   The saying is that you need to give 50-50, but the truth is it has to be 100-100.  And the giving must be done without the expectation that you will 'get' something back for it.  Selflessness.  It's a tough one.

• Respect and honor the other more than you honor yourself.  This grows over time.  What begins as the desire for it to be so, soon becomes the reality.  And make it your goal to care about the other's wants and needs more than you care about your own.......in every area of your relationship.  It's not in our human nature, but it's the only way to make marriage successful and truly happy. 
• Do fun stuff together.  Sports, hiking, walking (a great time for that 'communication' thing), cycling, tennis, ping-pong, basketball, spelunking, white water rafting, wrestling...........hehe..........OR.........you can even read!  A zest for living, physical fitness, and the 'togetherness' you get having fun in an active way are unbeatable.

• And never, ever stop talking.

So............these are the things that we both believe have helped make our marriage strong.   The details may be different for others, but we believe the principles apply for every couple wanting to make their marriage really succeed.  Some people say a good marriage takes 'work,' but we both disagree.  We think that being married and trying to keep our marriage alive is great fun.  It's God's plan, and it's awesome to be right in the middle of it!

Kate and Phil's Story of Love and Marriage

Phil and I first met back in the teen years when I started working at a local drive-in movie theatre where he was employed. There was a "no dating coworkers" policy and we were both into following (some) rules and didn't want to get fired, so we were just friends instead.

 

Apparently, we were both interested in each other, but too shy/insecure/whatever...to say anything, but we became friends.

 

I remember going to his house and he to mine when we were still in high school, but he was older and went off to college. During a few of his weekend visits, we went on a few dates, but then I didn't see him again for a good four or five years.

 

By then I was married AND pregnant, but ran into Phil at work, so it was strange (for both of us apparently) in the wishful thinking at that time. From time to time, I would go by his work and say hi when we were in town. By the time my marriage was definitely over (but I still had hopes of it not being over) Phil had gotten married and although his marriage was heading for over...neither of us was willing to admit that we were

separated from our spouses and divorces were filed.

 

We each went about our lives and once he changed jobs, I had no clue where he was. (Prior to that, where I would visit was a place where I would also visit my bestest high school friend's father as he worked in another department.)

 

Meanwhile, he had been looking for and looking up former classmates and one in particular that I also happened to know. This mutual friend had lived away from where we are now and I had all but given up talking to him ever again, when on a whim I looked him up in the phone book (kind of a one last time deal, as I couldn't remember Phil's last name, I didn't look him up and even if I remembered, I probably could have never spelled it...)

 

So, lo and behold, our mutual friend was listed and had been for a few years and I gave him a call. Meanwhile, between classmates.com and a high school reunion, Phil and our mutual friend had been talking and e-mailing, and Phil asked him if he knew how to get in contact with me, and the friend gave Phil my e-mail address.

 

So, our real official long-term dating was cyber dating as Phil had moved to TX and I was in Phoenix. We went from the occasional e-mail to IM and phone calls and that evolved to a long distance romance.

 

I went to Texas and lived with Phil for a year, but knew my heart was with my children and family. Phil was adamant about staying in TX.

 

Every time Phil asked me to marry him, I asked if he would consider moving to Phoenix. He kept saying no, so I returned to Phoenix.

 

When I ran away to safety and Phil's care I knew he loved me and would take care of me. When he let me go and let me move back to Phoenix to be with my children, I knew he loved me enough to let me go and be where I belonged.

 

When he asked me if I would marry him if he moved to Phoenix, he got the answer I wanted to give him all along.

 

We have been married just over four months and are still working on getting into a life and a routine in Phoenix and still feel like we are trying to get settled in, but we have come a long way together and are looking forward to many years of happiness and joy with my children and grandchild(ren).

 

For how long we have been friends, and the things we liked about each other, are still there.

Getting used to habits has been hard (I am secretive in general and I also kept a few government secrets for a long time that I don't keep secret any more), but by nature I just have never been a "talker", so that is changing.

 

He likes reality TV, my reality is like the TV show, "Medium." We both like "24" and wouldn't want it any other way.

 

We both enjoy sports and look forward to the Cowboys VS Cardinals game later this fall.

 

We managed to attend the same three schools of higher education, just never were both at any one at the same time.

 

I think the biggest piece of advice we can offer the single crowd is don't put yourself above dating anyone with "baggage" as you have clearly got "emotional baggage" in the form of selfishness. I know that God didn't make selfishness, but He did make caring and compassion. A heart of gold is worth far more than a free lunch...

 

When a heart of gold is the heart within, you will find someone for you with that exact same quality.

 

Did I mention that Phil also is conservative and was busy advocating for Bush before we started to discuss politics? I just loved sending him links to caption Kerry two summers ago.

Barb's Two Cents on Being a Newlywed and Some Advice on Cyberdating

Ahhhh...the bliss of being newly married!  What joy!  The birds are singing.  The bees are buzzing.  The flowers are blooming...

Okay, for me our honeymoon was a little different from most.  Actually, our wedding was a little different from most.  You see, hubby and I eloped (with 40 of our closest friends and relatives) in Reno in 2003—four weeks before he was to deploy to Iraq.  We were already engaged, and had planned on a summer wedding, but one cold winter day, hubby got "the call", and three days later we found ourselves in Reno tying the knot.

Our honeymoon consisted of phone calls, emails, letters between here and Iraq—and lots of insomnia.  At first it was strange being married to a man who was suddenly 6500 miles away, and it was even stranger that I could talk to him only when he was able to call me (every two to three weeks or so).

And so it went.

Our "real" honeymoon came 18 months later.  We spent a week in Vegas (yeah, I know some folks find it a tacky place for a honeymoon, but hubby's never been, and I love the Luxor).  We gambled, saw some of the shows, gambled, ate at the various restaurants, gambled, walked the Fremont Street Experience, gambled, got SMASHED in Quark's Bar and harassed a poor Borg and Klingon at the Hilton where they have the Star Trek Experience (we almost got kicked out—but we snapped some hilarious photos), and we gambled some more.

All fun and games aside, our marriage (going on year four now) is a very solid one.  Hubby has a heart of gold, and I could not ask for a better man.  I would have to say that absence made our marriage grow stronger.  We still feel like newlyweds.  We are like “kids” with each other.  We are the two most happy-go-luckiest-people I know, on the planet. 

Some advice on cyberdating.

Back in the day, I was the Queen of Cyberdating.  I started meeting men online as far back as 1996.  Match.com was the ONLY online dating site (with something like, 200 local members).  It took a lot of chatting, meeting bozo after bozo, and dating horrible men who were nothing like their profiles before I realized I was doing everything wrong from the very beginning.  By the time I met my hubby in a Yahoo chatroom by total  accident (most of you know this story)  5 years later, I had finally learned some very big lessons. 

That said, here are some of my do’s and don’ts when it comes to cyberdating:

• Be honest about yourself in your profile, and post an accurate, recent picture of yourself.  By all means, SMILE.  If you don’t, you’ll look angry and unapproachable.   Trust me.  You’ll want a pic (or several pics) of yourself doing some favorite activity, and at least one nice head-and-shoulder shot.
• Be concise and to the point when writing your profile.  Be eloquent, and don’t ramble incessantly.  Poetry is big turn-off for a lot of people.  Unless you are a master, avoid poetry at all costs. You’ll put people to sleep.  List your preferences accurately and pick people to chat with who are close to what you’re looking for.  Don’t fall for an ultra-liberal America-hating chick…just because she’s really hot.
• Try and meet someone who lives within driving distance.  Unless you have the time and money to travel, stick to meeting your potential future spouse  within a reasonable distance from you.  Don’t fall in love with someone you can’t afford to fly out to meet.
• Don’t fall in love with the very first nice looking person (whom you know nothing about) who gives you the time of day.  Stick to your guns.  If you’re looking for your future spouse, keep in mind all of the qualities you are looking for in that person. Don’t ever lose focus.
• Sell yourself.  Tell your potential future spouse what a great person you are.  Don’t be negative or down about yourself.  Don’t appear pathetic.  Be yourself and put your best foot forward.  If you don’t appear to be a reasonably healthy, happy, positive person you’ll scare people away.   Trust me. 

GIRLS:  Meet your potential future spouse in a very public place.  For your very first date, only meet for coffee or drinks where you can chat for as long or as short as you are comfortable with.  It’s easier to split the scene quickly if you are just sipping something, and not in the middle of dinner or stuck with a loser date in the middle of a 3-hour flick.  NEVER leave your drink unattended.  Before you use the restroom, finish your drink, or order a new drink once you’re back to your table.  By all means, drive yourself to your destination, DO NOT EVER let your date pick you up on your first date.  Tell a friend, family member, someone—anyone—where you will be and when you should be home.  Take your cell phone with you.  Park in a visible area.

• This is probably the toughest part about meeting your future spouse—know exactly what you are looking for and settle for nothing less.  Do not fall in love with someone's potential, but for who they really are.   This was the one mistake I made over and over.  Don't ever meet someone and try and fix them later.  Also, be realistic.  Unless you’re a super hot daddy, don’t go looking for a super hot mama. 

 It took me years and years of dating the same type of loser with a different name, and one failed marriage to a closet alcoholic, before I finally ‘grew-up’ and decided I would not settle for anything less anymore. Period.  I literally sat down and made a list of all the attributes I had to have in a man.  In fact, what had happened was I learned the very long and hard way about everything I did not want in a guy  through my own personal trial-and-error. (Mostly error.)  It was only after this personal epiphany that I met my true-love.  And it didn't take long.

 

[Calpernia]

That is a pretty post Dolly!

[bannie]

I don't think your snake hobby will be a detriment to finding someone. Not all women fear snakes. The only time I really fear snakes is when I bump into one out in the wild...I'm not fond of rattle snakes.

I don't think that I'm different from most women.

Keep your snakes, and don't give up!

[JRandomFreeper]

Good morning. Mickey D's for breakfast. Big ole cup of java. All is right with the world.

My girls are lazing around on the furniture after having a big party (or fight, or riot, or whatever... who can tell with catz) about 3:30 this blessed AM.

I'm going to let them fall asleep and then start crashing commercial kitchen pans next to them. Paybacks... ;>)

/johnny

[DollyCali]

we need to send your cats to "kitty grad school" to get some of these skills, johnny!

Silly Kitties

[Dr. Scarpetta]

That was very PROFOUND. Thank you!

[Allegra]

ROFL on the silly kitties.

I've had my own kitties do very similar things - the jumping in the bathtub one, climbing up my jeans at feeding time, the kitten in the mirror thing...

[Lady Jag]

LOL! They're clowns, that's why it's so easy to love cats!

[Lady Jag]

On of my cats occasionally chooses to keep me awake all night and I have taken revenge by keeping her awake all day. Let me tell you, it works. They start looking groggy quite soon and in no time, they become confused. By bedtime, they're ready to sleep through the night. LOL!

[MotleyGirl70]

Ping to myself for later.

[LucyT]

Dolly, thanks for the kitty ping, and thanks also for the beautiful comment at # 334.

[lysie]

LOL

LOL

[WFTR]

Both of you have made good posts that deserve some response. I'd like to give that response, but I'd also like to get some other things done today. If I don't get back to this thread later today, I'll try to reply later this week. I may reply here or I may just use Freepmail. I'll see how late I am in responding and how much I end up having to say. In any case, I appreciate your concern.

Thanks,

Bill

[Kate of Spice Island]

Who do you talk to just for fun AND understanding?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, and my confusion might be all the answer that your question needs.

Like a close friend that knows you well or something?

[ohioWfan]

btw, I post three threads here every single week, and YES, it is fun.

But this one is quite different for me.........so it's a new kind of kick. :)

[JRandomFreeper]

They are awake. ;>) When Spook disengages from the ceiling and tries to fall asleep again.... more pans.

She was sitting up on her haunches, in a standard sitting cat pose, weaving from side to side, eyes firmly shut, just almost asleep when I accidentally dropped those pesky 4" half pans. And the big roaster.

/johnny

[JRandomFreeper]

I liked your opening essay, BTW. Very nice. You and the Mr are lucky to have one another.

/johnny

[Quark2005]

Awesome video!

[Gucho]

Bump! Thanks for the ping DC.

[Lady Jag]

Did she jump or run?

[ohioWfan]

Hey there, Bill. Don't know if you're around now, but my husband (now FamilyMan6), and I have read through your posts, and would like to respond to a few of your comments.

First of all, as Evangelical Christians, we'd like to say that the Church does a pretty bad job of dealing with the whole dating/marriage topic.......perhaps because of fear, perhaps because of misinformation. (Let me say that anyone who says the Song of Solomon is only in reference to Christ and the Church is sadly misinformed. It's practically a sex manual.......passionate, and very frank).

The Church is made up of sinners, who sometimes get things really wrong, and though it seems to reflect on God Himself, it is not His will, nor His purpose for the body of Christ, the Church, to be a source of discouragement, as it has been for you.

But having said that, neither of us thought that the things you brought up in your post encouraged what you call 'passivity.' For example, Paul's words that it is better to be single than married (for the purpose of ministry) are not in any way, shape or form advice to all Christians. Paul knows that God's plan for most includes marriage, and that passage doesn't encourage passivity either in marriage, or in ministry. Also 'seeking first the Kingdom of God' doesn't imply that we don't work hard at any other aspect of our life here on earth. While marriage is not the same as an engineering career, there is nothing in seeking God first that implies or states that we don't have to work hard in life to succeed........and that includes our relationships.

It sounds like you either got some bad advice in those churches, or possibly, you interpreted what was said incorrectly.

God doesn't ever expect us to 'sit around and wait' for anything. If we feel God's calling us to a profession, we still need to pursue the education, apply to the colleges, take out the loans, and study our tails off to achieve it. There is no passivity involved in following God's will in any area of life. If those in your church said that there was passivity in something as critical to our lives as marriage, they, frankly, misinterpreted God's word. God gives us minds, hearts, passions, interests, and two feet. We're not supposed to sit around and wait for things to happen. We are supposed to be active in our obedience to His commands.

Secondly, we would like to address your own insecurity when it comes to women, as you have expressed it in describing your present relationship with the friend with whom you have 'chemistry.' You stated that the woman has never SAID you weren't her ideal, but that you still thought that you were inadequate. Is it possible, first, that you are wrong about that with this woman? And is it possible that there have been other women along the way that you drew the same conclusion (due to your own insecurity) who may have been very interested in you? (As for the 'experience' stuff........our now married 24 year old son never dated......never even TALKED to girls if he had to, and ended up marrying a very popular, attractive young woman who was smitten by him....and he, by her. 'Exerience' means nothing). btw, EVERYONE is insecure. Some just hide it better than others.

Third, we would like to strongly counter the idea that at 42, it is too late for you. I have two sisters who were both married (for the first time for all four people), at the age of 37 (neither dated much, never seriously). All four of them thought at some point that God intended for them to be single, and had made peace with that, but along came the perfect partner for them in 'middle age' and they are both extremely happy now, many years later. (One had children, the other not).

It seemed in your post that you have given up, and that you have now resigned yourself to the passivity that you know was the wrong advice in your twenties. Why would it be the right course of action, now that you are in the prime of life, and mature, financially solvent, and responsible? As we see it, that line of thinking doesn't make sense.

Last...........it seems that your understanding of God (due, perhaps to unfortunate church advice) is quite small. God doesn't change based on our understanding of who He is. There are often times in our lives where we don't 'feel' God near us, but He hasn't moved. God's love for us doesn't go away because we don't feel it. And God's love for us doesn't diminish because we are angry with Him.

It is a very human and common response to get mad at God when things go wrong in our lives. For you, being single is 'wrong.' (For Paul, it was ideal). You believe that God has let you down, but God's purpose is to love us and bring glory to Himself through us, and not to give us our way. And in that, it is up to us to allow God to be glorified in us even when life's circumstances don't make us happy.

You seem like a great guy. You're smart, you're sensitive, you're responsible, you're mature, you're able to communicate REALLY well (which is RARE in guys).

It is my (ohioWfan's) opinion, that you are a great catch, and that this is YOUR TIME to find that perfect mate to compliment your qualities with her own.

Go for it!