Posted on 01/02/2011 1:00:02 PM PST by opentalk
Notwithstanding Obama’s lack of constitutional eligibility for the office he occupies as a direct result of his father’s citizenship, Obama can’t even prove he is an American. In fact the only thing we can confirm about Obama is that he is a foreigner–foreign to America, foreign to the english language, and ignorant of our history. At this late date, after millions of dollars spent, people mysteriously dying, and the jailing of a decorated Army officer–all of whom questioned Obama’s legality–any so called ‘birth certificate’ produced now is nothing more than suspect, and it is more than likely another faked document…a worthless piece of paper just like all of Obama’s so called ‘credentials’.
We know Obama was born British, is likely a Kenyan citizen, and is Indonesian; we know he was never naturalized as an American citizen; we know there is no record of his name change from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama, II; we know he lied on his Illinois bar form about his previous names; we know he is using a stolen social security number, and that he has multiple social security numbers, and we know that Obama has a forged selective service registration.
Who does this kind of stuff except an illegal alien?
One of the things Obama cannot prove is that he is an American. He won’t release anything and asks us to believe him…as he robs our savings, our livelihood and our America.
(Excerpt) Read more at drkatesview.wordpress.com ...
I've handled plenty of cases where I've ditched a weaker argument so as not to detract from the appeal of an argument much more likely to succeed. From what is being argued in this thread, all nine members of the Supreme Court, including Thomas, Scalia, Roberts, and Alito, and the entire Republican contingent of the U.S. Congress, is complicit in covering up this birth issue despite people banging on it for years.
At some point, if you can't take the hill with a frontal assault, you need to consider flanking maneuvers rather than giving your opponent propaganda victories.
I've handled plenty of cases where I've ditched a weaker argument so as not to detract from the appeal of an argument much more likely to succeed. From what is being argued in this thread, all nine members of the Supreme Court, including Thomas, Scalia, Roberts, and Alito, and the entire Republican contingent of the U.S. Congress, is complicit in covering up this birth issue despite people banging on it for years.
At some point, if you can't take the hill with a frontal assault, you need to consider flanking maneuvers rather than giving your opponent propaganda victories.
Red Steel, that historical information re: allegiance is fascinating. Thanks for posting that. (Are you sure you’re not Mark Levine posting under a Freeper alias? ;)
Did you see the citations re: the original NBC requirement posted on the ‘Only Obama can end the birth controversy’ thread? rxsid posted one of the most intriguing and informative exchanges I have yet read:
“June 18th, 1787 - Alexander Hamilton suggests that the requirement be added, as: “No person shall be eligible to the office of President of the United States unless he be now a Citizen of one of the States, or hereafter be born a Citizen of the United States.” Works of Alexander Hamilton (page 407).
July 25, 1787 (~5 weeks later) - John Jay writes a letter to General Washington (president of the Constitutional Convention): “Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.” [the word born is underlined in Jay’s letter which signifies the importance of allegiance from birth.]
http://rs6.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28fr00379%29%29:
September 2nd, 1787 George Washington pens a letter to John Jay. The last line reads: “I thank you for the hints contained in your letter”
http://www.consource.org/index.asp?bid=582&fid=600&documentid=71483
September 4th, 1787 (~6 weeks after Jay’s letter and just 2 days after Washington wrote back to Jay) - The “Natural Born Citizen” requirement is now found in their drafts. Madison’s notes of the Convention
The proposal passed unanimously without debate.”
70 posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 12:57:42 PM by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN’S STATUS BE “GOVERNED” BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
You probably did see it, but it was a first time read for me, and I found it extremely interesting and enlightening.
As of today, if a native Indian and a US citizen marry, their children would be without split allegiances and NBC. If they married in the past, as I said in post 618, the children would have taken their father's allegiance and the mother would have taken the citizenship of her husband, and therefore the children would have their allegiance to the tribe or the United States. Again, depending on father's allegiance.
The call for transparency can be done by may means.
Transparency is what Obama campaigned on. Asking for accountability from a politician is not unreasonable especially when you suspect a con. Suggest you stop using the Birther label toward anyone who questions why the records are being kept off limits to the public.
Thank you, Bruce, for your thoughtful response. I am understanding now, much more clearly where you are coming from and that helps me understand your intent, which I do perceive to be genuine. I am sorry, too, for being a bit more pushy, but sometimes I feel like I have to do that to get to the bottom of what a person is saying. Not that that is a good excuse!
What I really want is SOLUTIONS! We all do! I hear in your last post just how sick you are about the whole thing, too, and I don’t blame you for sticking to principals, that’s important to me, too, but there has to be a way to overcome this imposture. We all know he is. No one goes to the lengths he has to hide his identity and not be an imposture!
As I said up-thread, we have to fight this battle or lose the war. That I am sure of (instinctively, a gut feeling, not factually—I might add.)
What do you think, along with addressing this at state level? Creatively, and thinking outside the box, what cleaver way can this be addressed nationally? That is what my silly idea above was about. Thinking outside the box.
Yes, I am aware of Bobby Jindal and others like him, and I understand that a strict idea of NBC cuts good folks out of the loop. I am sorry for that, but life just isn’t always fair! Lines do get drawn for good reasons and sometime it causes people to be adversely affected. I don’t always get to do what I want to do because of line drawn in my circle of influence! You could probably say the same. So IF the NBC thing ends up to be clearly understood as two citizen parents of someone born in the US, then I am sad for the Bobby Jindal types, but there are many good people who can do a good job.
Anyway, I am expounding unnecessarily, now. So, I’ll shut up. But let’s conservatives all work together *nicely* to find common ground and a workable solutions that will ultimately CLARIFY BEYOND A DOUBT what NBC means. It can be done, I know it. It MUST be done.
Best Wishes, Bruce.
We've seen Alinsky tactics do work. I suspect most congressman especially the Dems are just ignorant of the laws or are lying. As for the Supreme Court, they are not immune to criticisms, they want to be liked and lauded by the liberal press; to be able to wined and dined in Washington DC. They are political creature and do not always do the right thing. Taking a president down, even an usurper, takes much intestinal fortitude and integrity, which appears to be lacking in our society. Mark Levin has heaps of criticism for former and contemporary jurists on the Supreme Court and I agree with him.
And I get the argument that fighting for a principle is important even if you lose. But that sort of makes sense only if you're Leonidas at Thermopylae, and your only choice is dying in place or surrendering/running away.
But Obama is so vulnerable to criticism on so many different levels that complete victory is still possible if you switch up the tactics. But right now, it just looks to me like you guys are Joe Hooker at Fredrickburg. No matter how many times you send those boys up the Heights, they're just going to keep dying in droves.
I agree with you on this. If he gets re-elected, it might not matter who runs in 2016.
Before I was a lawyer, I was a combat Marine officer. Marines have a reputation for being tough, but Marines really pride ourselves on fighting smart as well. There are a bunch of military analogies I won't use, but they all go to the enemy suckering you into territory of his choosing anbd finding yourself trapped, fighting a battle on the wrong piece of ground.
Oh heck, I will use one. One of the most famous campaigns in Marine history was the Chosin Reservoir campaign. It's famous because those Marines displayed incredible toughness and professionalism in fighting their way out of North Korea at great odds. But one critical factor in the successful "advance in another direction" was that the CG of 1st Marine Division, O.P. Smith, refused to get suckered into over-pursuing Chinese and NK units. He deliberately dawdled in carrying out some orders so he could keep his units more concentrated and better able to resist a Chinese attack he was sure was coming, even if MacArthur wasn't. And the Chinese wanted to drag him further north, get his regiments strung out in the mountains, and then strike for complete destruction. But by refusing to take the bait, and not getting sucked into a battle on bad terrain where his division would be isolated, Smith made the key decision that may have saved the whole division. It left the 1st MarDiv sufficiently concentrated, just barely, to tear the guts out of the swarm of Chinese divisions seeking to destroy them.
To me, the birth certificate argument is just bad ground. The left wants conservatives to jump all over that argument, because it hasn't been successful and, in the minds of the swing voters we must win in 2012, discredits anyone who jumps on board. It's the lovely red herring out there.
Whatever anyone else chooses to believe here, I'm a dedicated conservative lawyer with a pretty good pedigree. And if they can't convince a guy like me that I'm wrong on the 14th Amendment, then there is absolutely zero hope of convincing all the people more in the middle that you'd need to convince to get any real political mileage out of the issue.
Howard Dean tried that this week with opposition to healthcare and was portrayed as a condescending elitist.
It work well last time in part because McCain would not let (Palin) or others question who Obama was.
Funny how he took the gloves off in his last senate fight. He is also an elitist. (imo)
We have the power of the Tea Party Movement
There is no reason the next campaign cannot be different. We need a candidate that will be able the stand up to the MSM and ask Obama tough Questions.
one of our biggest road blocks will be RINOs, Rove approved candidates ,election fraud and funding.
Ok. I love that story. It puts things in perspective. So, let’s get crackin’! I already threw out a crazy idea for debate way back there on the thread. You know the celebrate the constitution idea. Your turn. Throw out a crazy idea. Let’s get some story-boarding going. Are you familiar with this technique in relation to problem solving? It’s a really great process and always leads to creative approaches, especially when dealing with insightful people, as this thread if FULL of! :) So, go, Bruce, throw out a crazy idea for debate. Make sure it is really out there...that is the point of story-boarding. Conservatives are NOT going to lose, but we have got to get going. Time is getting short for battle plans. You game?
Daisy, the BC IS the winning issue/strategy. This is because it is so simple: anyone can grasp it in under 30 seconds, and they can relate to it. No one I have ever mentioned the issue to has heard even the basics about it. The facts are so simple and straightforward, when explained they cause the hearer’s eyes to enlarge and their jaws to drop. Every American has had to present their BC on numerous occasions. When they learn that Obama has never shown his, has spent millions hiding it, and has put an honorable army surgeon in prison—Leavenworth—rather than show his BC, their opinion of Obama changes instantly—i.e.: it takes a death spiral nosedive. Works every time it’s tried. Every single time.
On the occasions I’ve mentioned Obama’s Marxism, I’ve gotten the opposite reaction. People’s eyes glaze over, or they look at me like I’m crazy. The MSM meme is just too strong, and they can’t make the leap between what they’ve heard for three-plus years and the revelations that, quite frankly, sound just a little too far over the top.
I am offering you my firsthand personal experience. I have a lot of it, and it tells me we have a winning issue. Let’s keep spreading the word till it reaches critical mass. What do you say?
But it also ,consciously or unconsciously, makes you feel less secure and safe - having a president with secrets. Especially after 2 years of his agenda.
There was a period when the case was a little harder to make. The MSM claimed Obama had released his BC, and the rank and file wanted to believe that. If people like us had dropped the issue then—as so many are urging us to do now—that might have been the end of it.
But the patriots didn’t drop it. Case after case kept coming, and the conservative grassroots rose up in support of the efforts. Obama’s narrative lost steam, and then lo and behold, even the MSM started helping us out; they verified what we’d been saying all along, and even turned up the heat on Obama.
Once Abercrombie joined in, the tide turned. One of Obama’s oldest friends confirmed the records are sealed, but promised to try to release ‘more’ information. There’s no going back now; the groundswell is gaining power, and the day of reckoning is closing in.
Naturally the Obama supporters are coming out of the woodwork to throw cold water on us. They are panicked to see how big and resilient the issue has become. But they might as well try to stop a freight train with their bare hands. It has left the station, and it’s not turning back.
In for a penny, in for a pound, but I think it is about eligibility in total and defense of the constitution.
Opentalk has struck a note with the safety thing. It does make you feel insecure...and I hadn’t really put my finger on that until I read that post. This may be a jump off point...needs to be explored more...keep thinking on that...
The problem I have is that the area I am from is a dem. strong hold, but full of conservatives. The facts aren’t sinking in and the mentality that goes along with the entitlement philosophy is so difficult to get past. These good people, and they are really the salt of the earth good, are the past kind of democrats that really just want everyone to be happy, feel good, and get a hand up if they need it.
Truly, there are still people like that. This Obama stuff is just too unbelievable for them! It has to be a Republican conspiracy, because NO true democrat would ever be so cunning and calculated! You know what I am saying?
I love these people and I don’t know how to break it to them in such a way that their spirit is not broken! Seriously! There has to be a way to garner the use of the media against the will of the media, because that is still the voice these types of folks listen to. Those stupid dead birds have gotten the kind of attention this issue needs!!!
We have to be creative. If we don’t get the voice of the media in some creative way, we will never get this across to the middle masses that we need. But if we ever do get their ear, the conservative voice outweighs the progressive voice I’m guessing 4-1. It’s a solid win.
How-—how-—think-—think!
We’ve got to get more people on this creative thinking. It is time to stop debating. Action time is here.
By the way, for the record, I am not talking about overthrowing the government or ousting a sitting President, UNLESS he SHOULD be ousted.....I am talking about getting everything back in the constitutional direction it was meant to be going, and if the President is not in line with that, that is a problem of his own creating.
I’m guessing when the founding of this country occurred, lots of these types of conversations happened in pubs and places, but this is the avenue we have, and we have to use it effectively. No more debating. It’s time to act.
And also, I am not concerned with people reading what I am thinking, either, because WE THE PEOPLE control this country, we just let someone else have the reins for a while while we got our second wind, BUT we are rested, and ready to go, so LET US ALL get back to the driver’s seat!!!
Oh, absolutely. Orwell had it right -- all pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others.
There is no reason the next campaign cannot be different. We need a candidate that will be able the stand up to the MSM and ask Obama tough Questions.
I agree. But I'll tell you something, though the Reverend Wright stuff didn't work last time, I think it may have left an impression. People dismissed it back then because Obama seemed like such a nice, moderate kind of guy. I think that stuff is still in the backs of people's minds now that they've seen how he's governed.
one of our biggest road blocks will be RINOs, Rove approved candidates ,election fraud and funding.
I think our biggest problem will be finding the right candidate. But apart from that, it is the fraud that really worries me because so many states are so closely-balanced.
Can you put together a very clear and concise argument for the NBC issue, maybe even a paragraph in length, that is devastatingly convincing? Something that can be spoken easily and in just a few minutes?
Thanks for your reply. I’m going to be away from the computer for most of the evening. If I can reply tonight I’ll plan to, but I may not be able to send you an answer until tomorrow. Your questions were excellent, though, and I look forward to discussing the issues you raised.
Regardless of who has been in office, Goldman Sachs people have been making and running monetary policy. We need someone outside of the current structure and status quo
Why Obama is ineligible – regardless of his birthplace
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=134881
Obama May Be a Born Naturalized Citizen but Not a Natural Born Citizen
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/11/obama-may-be-born-naturalized-citizen.html
NBC Means Unity of Citizenship at Birth
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