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I was initially under the impression that your tagline was your name, and that you were an actual doctor in some field.

Having read the tone of your discourse, I see now that this simply cannot be the case. I will adjust my response accordingly:

"Whatever."

I stand corrected on my comment re: your quote from the Psalms, as the Church clearly did not come before David. The rest of your quotes are from the New Testament.

Having said that, you are being disingenuous with your quotation of my comment. I did not list "Psalms, Romans and Colossians" in my remark; you inserted these on your own, without any notation that you had done this. I will look more carefully in the future when I see you "quote" another member.

Cheers.

So the fact you’ve just acknowledged your faith contradicts the Psalms, Romans and Colossians worries you not at all, right?

That's a cute comeback, except there is no contradiction between my faith and the verses you have cited.


Is there an adult version of this site anywhere?

"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." -- Psalms 2:12


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"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." -- Romans 1:21-25


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"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

(Touch not; taste not; handle not; 2

Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?" -- Colossians 2:20-22


Roman Catholicism (my faith) existed before these quotations you cite were even written. I've got much more confidence in this than a religion (Protestantism) that is less than 400 years old.

look at birth rates.

Right on.

Europe is figuring this out first. Although we here in America have chosen to have fewer children as well, we have the advantage that most of our immigrants are Christian, even if many of them don't speak English.

Out of respect; those of us who acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah would do this.

I should have quoted the post I was referring to:

(Do they deny He existed? That He was crucified? That He was buried?)

John Dominick Crossen argues exactly that... Jesus would not have been buried. His body, according to Crossen, would have been tossed into a ditch for the dogs to eat like other crucifixion victims bodies were. Some skeptics doubt (H)is existence. Many doubt the (C)rucifixion.


Actually, I would still argue with one who did not believe that Jesus of Nazareth existed, although I would strongly encourage that person to do a little more reading.

Then that's just being naive; I'm not sure where or whether I would even argue the point with someone who doesn't believe that Jesus of Nazareth existed.

Sure, it could be the burial shroud of Jesus of Nazareth, but the evidence you point to above and in your post hardly makes that case.

I guess that's all I was looking for. Someone had been making the argument yesterday that it was without a doubt a fraud; I may have dragged my frustration from yesterday into my reply to you today. My apologies.

Someone picks up a piece of bone at an archeological dig and puts together a diagram of how this bone is a part of a skull of a human ancestor and how it shows we descended from apes. Science has no apparent problem with all of the missing information and stands by the bone. Here you have a case where Religion points to what is believed to be the Shroud of Turin (with far more evidence to back this up), and Science can't try to knock it down fast enough.

shroud = Shroud

If somebody claimed to have found a toga that Julius Ceasar wore, would you doubt it?

_____

I would, wouldn’t you?

Would you not want significant evidence to demonstrate that it was in fact worn by Julius Caesar? I would.


Why? I'm not paying money to see this toga, I'm not bidding for it on Ebay, and I know that Julius Caesar was an actual person. He had to wear something. If someone comes up and makes a credible case that they had his toga, why would that be incredible?

It is an historical fact that Jesus of Nazareth was crucified and that He died on the Cross. (Our Jewish Freepers will tell you that.) In accordance with Jewish tradition at the time, He was buried before sundown, and He would have been buried in a cloth. What on earth is so difficult to accept that this shroud is still in existence?

I don't understand the vehemence with which people are arguing this point. (Do they deny He existed? That He was crucified? That He was buried?)

Can you imagine being the poor guy who actually sits down and writes a story like this?

The Second World War pulled us out of the Depression, as it required an enormous labor force for manufacturing that had to be done here in the US.

Those kinds of wars are gone. The kind of war we fight today is so prohibitively expensive, it is part of what has helped get us into this mess.

Someone had a video link on one of these posts that showed a helicopter fire 3 (three) Hellfire missiles at four combatants. (By combatants I mean men.) Let's see, that's 3 Hellfire missiles times $68,000.00 a missile against 4 people in a country of over 28,000,000. You do the math.

A good massive war is probably the last thing this economy needs right now. (I used the defense industry as an example as one of the few fields in which we actually employ people and produce a product.)

What does this country have left that will hold up the dollar? The defense industry?

We've taken the dollar off the gold standard, sent our manufacturing overseas, and shut down our oil rigs. On top of this, we're up to our eyeballs in debt. The demand for the dollar was based on the fact that it was needed by everyone to purchase oil from OPEC. (Look around, folks. There's nothing here holding it up.)

If it isn't needed to buy oil from OPEC, why would anyone hang onto it?

Then why not simply say, "I don't know if this is real or not." (The one point you didn't address from my previous post.)

You are not addressing the posts pointing out the problems with the carbon-dating, and you are adamant that the shroud is fake.

I believe the shroud to be genuine, but I am not arguing this point with the effort that you are arguing yours.

What is your difficulty with believing that this shroud is what it is claimed to be?

In other words, you identify yourself as "Christian." Why does the presence of this shroud present a problem?

There is a disconnect between your strong opinion and your religious identification. (Why not simply say, "I have no idea if this is real or not," and leave it at that?)

If somebody claimed to have found a toga that Julius Ceasar wore, would you doubt it?

I can't imagine what is so hard about believing that this shroud was the burial shroud of Jesus Christ.

It's an opinion; I will make it clearer next time when I am giving one.

Having said that, I thought I was stating the obvious. I think you would agree that there is insufficient support in the UN Security Council (where Russia and China hold veto power) to take very strong steps against Iran. We are in the position where we cannot antagonize our much-needed lenders (China, of course) and we cannot bully the one other country that is still outside of our influence (Russia). (It's not Iraq we're talking about here. We cannot simply go into Russia and smack people around as if it was.)

If there are Russians in Iran helping them with nuclear technology and if the Russian government is aware of their presence, any action taken against Iran could antagonize Russia.

If desperate, would Israel take such a step? Possibly. Would we? I don't believe it.

That's one less thing to worry about in Holland Township N.J., I guess.

And if Russia turns to Israel and the United States and warns against an attack on Iran, what next?

Hint: We are not going to risk a confrontation with Russia over Iran.

I suspect that they've already given the warning. Which is why both countries have nothing left to do except talk about the possibility of an attack.