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This is an extremely complicated situation, I will have to read further on the info presented because there is a lot here I have never heard of. I do think the Guard was put into an extremely difficult position of riot control and I don't think they had much training in that area.

But, without having been there and without extensive study, they probably should not have fired into the folks on the campus that they could not see were armed nor were attacking them directly.

Having said the above, my next door neighbor growing up was a Fireman called to Kent State. I remember as a kid him telling me of the bricks thrown at him riding to the campus and that when he was fighting the fire at the ROTC building, having his fire hose cut.

I think there was a organized element to many of the college "riots" and that the students who opposed the war were being used by professionals. But I do think the shootings were a very unfortunate situation and I'm sure the Guardsmen wished they had never happened.

Mark,
keep fighting the good fight!

I was in the Embassy three weeks ago and drove by the Television building a couple of times, if that's the building they hit, it was a pretty good shot as they are only a few hundred meters apart.

It'll be interesting if troops were able to get to the launch site and have a "few words" with the firing team.

My Dad said the exact thing. In WWII, he said the Red Cross charged them for donuts and coffee but they were always free from the Salvation Army! I gave money to the Red Cross for Katrina relief, never again.

you know, if he was just wearing the desert Cammies and a blank beret, I would forgive him. But he's wearing general's stars and a huge rack of ribbon's, thats unforgivable and possibly against the law. It's a shame. He treats our uniform as a prop. I don't care what his political persuasion, what he's doing is wrong.

the MoveONKOSSheehan crowd is gonna go HIGH ORDER over Kaine's speech, they are going to be so pissed for him not attacking hard, prepare for the fissure to widen

he transitioned from 9/11 to Iraq, to Virginia Veterans benefits, makes my head hurt

If he doesn't mention being tough on national security, it's over for the Dem's

Totally Concur!

NO ONE can smack down the Press like Rummy!

I love your quote by your name, when the SECDEF said that, I laughed my butt off!

it's a really good story but it took awhile to work through the paperwork, NBC had her on the news tonight making the rounds of Congress, it's a great ending to a bad story

She's a K-9 handler who was pretty badly wounded in Iraq, Congress had to pass a special law for her to keep her dog Rex

Am I the only one reading this editorial that thinks this completely "outs" the Washington Post as a liberal and Democratic newspaper?? They write as if they are a mouthpiece for the Democratic party.

Rather nice of them to admit it, don't you think?? I can't wait till the next nominee when they will be distributing the Dem's talking points.

I had the misfortune of reading some liberal blogs over the weekend, they struck me as over the top angry and full of hate filled speech. While I have my own criticisms of all the former Presidents, some very minor, others more substantive, these men were all elected to our highest office in the land. As a military officer, I salute the office of the President and while I have my favorites (like President Reagan who awarded me my commission) I really understand the humor of some of these posts, but I also salute the men who served in this office.

Everyone of these men deserves the salute of a grateful nation, regardless of our political leanings. You can despise them, oppose them, or just not like them, but I salute the American people and our way of life for granting us the ability to choose.

Just some thoughts...

I completely agree! I thought I was the only one that had that deja vu feeling all over again...obviously the White House will not have an official comment while the investigation continues, but, Karl Rove knows what he told the Grand Jury and whether or not it was true or false. But for a moment, let's say he lied or did something else egregious, I am convinced for both his loyalty to the President and just plain smart politics, he would have left right after the election for "personal or health reasons" so this incident would not become a huge negative for the President.

Well, here they are, smiling, saying "can't comment" and I'm betting that SOMEONE's being investigated and the Administration is pretty sure it ain't someone significant...so, we shall see...I don't know where this will all go, hell, according to all the info, Plame was not under cover in the last 5 years...so is the crime something else against someone else...hmmmm

While of course I salute the barbs generated towards our northern friends, anyone that bad mouths the flying ability or danger associated with the Snowbirds doesn't have a clue. Having watched them fly dozens of times, I can attest to the very difficult routine they fly, especially with an underpowered, very old jet.

And, having flown in the right seat of the number 4 jet (the slot) during a practice flight, I can assure you these pilots are good, DAMN good. And you haven't lived until you've been in a nine ship landing!

I guess my first point is the old adage: the first reports are always wrong. All of these first news reports are subject to wide misrepresentation and interpretation. Remember all the initial Jessica Lynch stories that were wrongly reported.

Having said this, I don't have to know too much at this point to see both sides of the story. I know absolutely nothing about the woman journalist and frankly, her leanings don't really matter. She was apparently held hostage, and by some means, she was freed by agents of Italy.

They then made their way towards the Baghdad airport to try and get her out of the country. Having personally driven up to these checkpoints, I know the competing concerns of avoiding the bad guys by driving too slow and scaring the checkpoints as you approach too fast. Another major issue is that sometimes units will throw up checkpoints at random to not let the bad guys know where they are.

So, I honestly believe this is a tragic byproduct of war and the Italian Agent was killed in the hour which was probably his greatest. Italy has been a friend for many years and I hope the damage is not permanent.

it takes a while for these things to work their way through the right channels. A recent story about the ceremony follows:

MARINE CORPS AIR STATION, MIRAMAR, Calif. (NNS) -- President Bush awarded the Presidential Unit Citation to members of the Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force – SOUTH/Task Force K-BAR (CJSOTF-SOUTH/TF K-BAR) Dec. 7 during a private ceremony for their heroic efforts while serving in Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) from October 2001 to March 2002.

Capt. Robert Harward commanded the CJSOTF-SOUTH, which was established in response to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The Task Force was comprised of U.S. Navy SEALs (Sea, Air, Land), Special Warfare Combatant-craft crewmen, U.S. Army Special Forces, U.S. Air Force Combat Controllers, and Coalition special operations forces from Canada, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Australia, New Zealand and Turkey.

The Citation was presented to the Task Force on the same day that President Hamid Karzai was sworn in as President of Afghanistan.

“The tremendous successes achieved by the Task Force during the first six months of OEF paved the way for this day,” said Rear Adm. Joseph Maguire, commander, Naval Special Warfare Command, referring to the swearing in of President Karzai.

The CJSOTF-SOUTH initially operated from Oman, and then moved forward to locations in the southern and eastern regions of Afghanistan. Its primary mission was to destroy, degrade, and neutralize the Taliban and Al Qaeda leadership and military.

During its six-month existence, Task Force K-BAR was the driving force behind myriad combat operations. These extremely high-risk missions set a powerful precedent, and included search and rescue; recovery dive operations; boardings of high-interest, non-compliant vessels; special reconnaissance; sensitive site exploitation; direct action; hydrographic reconnaissance; destruction of multiple cave and tunnel complexes; apprehension of military and political detainees; identification and destruction of Al Qaeda training camps; explosion of thousands of pounds of enemy ordnance; and successful coordination of unconventional warfare operations for Afghanistan.

The warriors of CJSOTF/TF K-BAR established an unprecedented 100 percent mission success rate across a broad spectrum of special operations missions under extremely difficult and constantly dangerous conditions.

Navy Secretary Gordon England, who was the approving authority for the award, Vice Adm. Bert Calland, and U.S. and coalition forces were also present at the ceremony.

In the citation accompanying the award, England praised them for “their outstanding courage, resourcefulness, and aggressive fighting spirit in combat against a well equipped, well trained and treacherous terrorist enemy.”

Additionally, England said, “They established benchmark standards of professionalism, tenacity, courage, tactical brilliance, and operational excellence.”

This event marks the first time since the Vietnam era that a Naval Special Warfare unit received this award.

The Navy Presidential Unit Citation was established by Executive Order 9050, which was signed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt Feb. 6, 1942, and promulgated by Navy Department General Order Number 187 Feb. 3, 1943.

According to Navy regulations, “The Navy Presidential Unit Citation is awarded in the name of the President to units of the Armed Forces of the United States and cobelligerent nations for extraordinary heroism in action against an armed enemy. The unit must have accomplished its mission under such extremely difficult and hazardous conditions to set it apart from and above other units participating in the same campaign. The degree of heroism required is the same as that which would be required for award of a Navy Cross to an individual."

The regulation further stipulates that “Presently, the Navy Cross is awarded to a person who distinguishes himself or herself by extraordinary heroism not justifying the award of the Medal of Honor. To warrant this distinctive decoration, the act or the execution of duty must be performed in the presence of great danger or at great personal risk.”

I have had the privilege and honor of working with both the UK SAS and the Aussie SASR in various places around the world, in both exercises and operationally. If there were SAS on this aircraft, the loss of the Herc aircrew, probably from the Special Flight, as well as the Operators would be supremely tragic. There was a similar loss in Australia years ago where two Blackhawks collided inflight and killed a dozen or so SASR.

For those that don't know, the reference above to the clock is the famed clock in Hereford England. When a member of the SAS dies in an operation, they put their name on the clock because they didn't beat the Clock.

Thanks to our great Ally's the Brits and God Bless and watch over these brave troops who lost their life in this crash.

Wow! Thats great news that they all survived! For a helo to go into the water, with these cold temps and for all to survive, is amazing.

Prayers and thoughts go out to them.