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Been watching bits of LKL. OMG! Debra Opri issued a statement saying that everything Larry’s saying on the show is a falsehood, and that she believes RC’s book to be pretty accurate. And that she will ahve more to say in future.

They wouldn’t let her phone in, either.

I do apologise. Yeah, there was a psycho in my life who did inspeakable damage to a lot of people. Think I’ll back out of the discussion for a while.

Thanks for being a good sport. I’ve always looked forward to your thoughtful posts.

Okay I had a rest.

““I don’t think Anna is so very different from them- except for being a woman.””

Now I have to disagree with you!

Except for being dead!”

Me: Okay. Where lies your disagreement?”

My answer should have been, bwah! Yes, except for being dead. Am thinking of taking my brain to the dry cleaners or place it in a restful coma for a while . I feel like a fool.

I do love your wit.

You make some pertinent observations.

If she used drugs to kill pain, and she had conscience under it all, I”m thinking she would not be endangering her baby by infusing massive amounts of drugs while in hospital. Yet, she is also drugged in the “clown” video. Point one.

IMO, she was never mentally unstable. She was a grifter, and babes were her ticket to money and fame when the opportunity arose. You want to forgive her for her bad choices, and her life. Hey, I’ve had a harsh life and I didn’t end up like her. She was a sleaze, and while it lasted, a happy, drugged sleaze.

All sorts of people can be sweet and down to earth. It tells us nothing about motivation and the end results. Point two.

ANS was nothing like Marilyn. Marilyn was totally vulnerable and passive and clueless. Anna gave as good as she got. Btw, I don’t think Hef is a “nice man” either. You’re kidding, right?

The last photo proves nothing about her bonding with
DL. It just shows her smiling like she did on dozens of occasions. Considering that she was a drug addict, I can guarantee you she wasn’t giving a damn about the baby or her son.

“She wanted money, fame, no pain, sex, and to be admired. It was her undoing.”

Hey, I would like it too. But it’s so venal and sick. Are you justifying her bad choices? Seriously, should any of this be a consideration for victim of the year? She chose stuff that may or may not have been her undoing. Her undoing was her venality and lack of conscience and hanging out with a bad crowd that she loves, a crowd who ate her alive, in th end. And only because she didn’t get there first.

As for anything abot HKS, yes, you are excusing him. Read up about psychopaths, experience one, and then get back to me.

YOur entire post is an apologia for people who sure as hell don’t deserve it. Go talk to your local victim and then get back to me. I have read the nannies tape. It just strengthens my belief that HKS is a psychopath and that, by this time, ANS was in his power. One psycho lost to another. Happens all the time.

“I don’t think Anna is so very different from them- except for being a woman.””

Now I have to disagree with you!

Except for being dead!”

Okay. Where lies your disagreement?

“I am hoping that Rita Cosby’s book will force another look at the two deaths.”

Oh, that is such a good point!

I don’t recall, did Mark Furhman’s book reopen the Martha Loxley (?)/Kennedy case or did he write it after. But you are so right. It cant’ be ignored, especially if it is controversial and G-dwilling, gets the public up in arms.

oooo there is hope!

“Brings me back to the early days when I questioned why none of Howard’s early girl friends or teachers didn’t jump out of the woods. Fear??

I speculated back then that perhaps there was a “sealed record” someplace.

Blackmail”

WHOAAAAA! Good one! I remember that thread and remember thinking that that is so far fetched, never realising that could be a viable MO (like, how could people be so stupid???). I lived in total denial. Clearly whomever he met was pretty sleazy tho maybe he charmed an innocent here or there who is embarrassed and humiliated. I wish they would come forth.

And the other thing with psychopaths is that they can be creepy and can intimidate and you don’t know why you are so fearful. It’s like a black pall hangs over you and leaves you frozen from ever telling. Actually, I saw an interview with Lisa Marie Presley several years ago, and her experience with Michael Jackson while married fits with the psychopathic encounter (and she had no idea, nor the audience).

I wish someone would delve into his relationship past- it would be very telling.

Man, Sac, such perspicaciousness! A.w.e.s.o.m.e.

“””I’d rather make a list of questions to ask Howard on the stand.”””

No fair fighting a fool with forensics. Before Q2, you would have him hiding under a rock.. since he knows Anna died Wednesday night after the ice bath.”

I know this is not much of an addition and a waste of space but:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

““””I sure as hell don’t think she loved DL.”””

Did you mean DL or LB??

Dr. KE said she had not bonded with Dannielynn, but then can you believe that quack on anything??

IMHO I also believe Anna never knew or had lost sight of Love & Marriage...she was inclined toward a variety of ‘sexual’ events.....she probably had severe emotional/psychiatric insecurity problems - not improved by her lifestyle and companions.”

Oh, I VERY MUCH meant DL. A woman who can’t even get off drugs for the duration of the pregnancy is not mom material, in my estimation. I don’t think for one moment she ever cared for DL. It doesn’t take the report of a quack to convince me one way or the other. But that fact is, that even pathological liars insert grains of truth if it is to their advantage.

Yeah, she had a lot of psychiatric problems. But all of them were compounded by her drug intake. She was also grasping, and that had nothing to do with psychiatric problems. It is a fact that when someone is using drugs they have psyhcopathic traits; and before then, I imagine they wer no picnic.

All told, she wasn’t a victim of her psyche or anyone. She was a user and manipulator. Should we cut her slack like some wiseguy who killed his parents and then threw himself on the mercy of the court because he was an orphan?

As far as I”m concerned, ANS, HKS, KE and LB were carved from the same stone. And btw, I am sure we can make victims of Howard and KE and Larry while we’re at it. I don’t think Anna is so very different from them- except for being a woman.

“gay cabal: TMZ, Art Harris, Milstein and the rest of them - wonder what Ron Rales sexual proclivities are? IMO of course”

I don’t agree. To me it doesn’t matter that some of the protagonists are gay- what matters is how that orientation is being used for blackmail purposes. For all I know, Howard really digs chicks, but psychos will screw anything and anyone as long as it advances their purposes.

And it is just like HKS to focus on the “gay” aspect, if that point ever comes up, to the detriment of the truth, so he can cry prejudice.

There is always the outchance that homosexuality bred some perverse immoral club and culture here, but I doubt it. Especially with HKS pulling the strings. You know that whatever he sets before you will be a lie, and speak to someone’s prejudices and weaknesses- it’s that smoke and mirrors thing- he would use homosexuality as a smokescreen, and indict all gays to gain points, leaving all those human beings with a different orientation besmirched and wounded once again.

Psychopaths aim to hurt, kill (if need be), and WIN, and nothing and no one else matters and that’s really important to understand. They leave devastation in their wake. Human detritus. Roadkill.

IMO, Howard is a psychopath aiming to win and take it ALL, by whatever means necessary. If it took a nuclear war, all that matters him is that he be the last one standing.

If he and Dannielynn were in a forest and met a voracious bear, he would throw Dannielynn to the bear and run. Also, Anna, LB, his sister, his borther, his mother, his father, etc.

I’ve seen the movie, many times, one of my faves. Virginia was psychotic, not just “drugged and oblivious”. She had a genuine breakdown.

ANS’s situation is way more ambiguous. I mean, you’d have to have a doctor that told the truth and in this scenario, no one tells the truth but caters to the madness. Man, that is the ultimate hell.

I don’t think Anna was a victim. I think she was amoral and had psychopathic traits. I think her connection to Danny was just plain sick- he was the caretaker (poor, sweet,kid), and when he was offed, she lost her caretaker. The fact that she left him unburied for so long, let him bloat and look so amazingly neglected and forlorn, no dignity whatsoever in his dying and post death, and while she got “married”....I’m not blaming it on any drug at this point- I think that this was Anna. Because drugs at this point mattered more to her than her son. In other words, her pain mattered more to her than her baby.

And DL was just an “HKS ANS LB grand production”- they should use a weasel (great offense to the weasel, I know) in the opening credits. I just cannot feel for Anna. The fact that her mother continues to love her is so awesome to me- I would wish for a mother like that.

What did Anna do to her kids? That’s my touchstone. Well, I’m not sorry she died; but I’m sorry a soul was wasted on this earth.

As for Virginia- she had soft humanity written all over her. Not so with ANS. I think that is a drastic and significant difference.

“I believe after years of public emasculation and indignities, HK$ developed a visceral hatred for ANS that controlled all his behavior/actions...resulting in her destruction by drugs.”

I can’t disagree with you. A psychopath holds an endless grudge, remembers every small humiliation- given the opportunity for revenge, he will make up for lost time.

Which makes me more convinced now, now that you mentioned it, that indeed, he killed her son (greatest revenge) and then her. Motive? Humiliation. And revenge for that humiliation. And now he has a clean slate with DL and the publicity millions. The ultimate revenge. Everything has fallen nicely into place for him, and Larry has been a lynchpin. Psychos never forget and they never forgive.

Your suggestion that Larry is a narcissist- yeah, I would agree. And he certainly has psychopathic traits. Which makes me wonder, also, what illegal drugs he is taking.

Geeeeez,

Your spec is uncanny. Gives me shivers. I believe it. I bet that’s how it went down. Which makes Danny and DL the only innocents in this saga. But what is terrifying is, it makes them fodder for death, if need be, whether psychic or, as in Danny’s case, real. Anna got way more than she bargained for, but this just proves to me she wasn’t much of a victim either.
I sure as hell don’t think she loved DL.

“Did anyone see the picture of Anna, Daniel and Hannah in US magazine? She looks into the camera with heavenly serenity...the last she would know in her life. Daniel is holding his baby sister with pride, radiating happiness to be with them. They both are looking into the camera feeling a sense of safety with the picture taker, whether it was Ben Thompson or Howard, I don’t know.”

Thanks so much for the moving description. I remember those photos, and I don’t see anything there except sweetness and, as you say, a radiant happiness and a sense of safety. Does anyone know who took the pix? I think that’s germinal because Danny talked about fearing Howard. But even so, he could have been overcome with such happiness being with his Mom and sister after having been denied it all for so long. What a sweet smile he had. Still so innocent.

“Betting that Howard wrote up the deals. Maybe Larry should rethink his position with Howard. Maybe that’s not a good term to use after reading the little expose on Howard and Larry.

Is Larry on any meds??”

BWAH! I just think Larry’s greed leads his brain, and I have an idea that there’s a lot of wind whistling thru that skull. I am not giving the highlighted one a shred of victim status here- in retrospect, I think a lot went down from early on that we never guessed. Larry strikes me as soft and squishy, like butter, laced throughout with desire.

I agree, Howard wrote up the deals. Also, I think that Howard is so pleased that Larry is so easy, a walk in the park- Anna, at least, could be shrewed when she wasn’t drugged- she had met her match in Howard and had proper contempt for him- just underestimated his wiliness. And the death of her son? Well, that was her undoing, and the psychopath’s triumph.

Damn, who on this thread is gonna write the definitive book???

“But Larry B tells TMZ it’s a smear campaign.”

So typical of how psychopaths operate- smoke and mirrors, distraction and deflection from the facts and truth-just like magicians. I am guessing Howard is behind this because I think Larry is a voracious bubblehead, although his playing the victim isn’t anything new.

OK! is no small mag. For them to pull out means that there was something truly disturbing (and may come back to bite them). Not saying OK! suddenly found a conscience, but the fact that they are going public with this is really interesting.

Yeah, OK! wants to withdraw because of competitors? I guess the public will buy it. Geez, Larry whines a lot. What a victim he is! Once a champion, now put upon.

OF COURSE Larry double dealed- especially with Virgie, and he wants to do it at Daniel’s inquest. And that’s what really scorches my britches! Feh! He’s nothing but a Rapacious Scumbag with golden highlights and I fell for his shtick.

“I’m betting the house that the Anna’s testimony for the inquest will be a video and her statement to the police. She will exonerate Howard in the video and say how wonderful he was. She may even have a “wish” in there.”

Wouldn’t it be great if that video (if it is indeed, as you describe it), got “lost”? Oh, just let me dream for one shining moment!

“What I always wonder is - what do “normal” people who watch ET think of all this wall-to-wall coverage of a little baby? Don’t any of them write or call in and tell them to cut it out? Oh, yeah, there probably aren’t any “normal” people who watch it. Ugh, ugh, ugh.”

A great question!

I think it is habituation- the abnormal becomes the normal world for people. Of course, these are people also addicted to that world, and who never question its morals or propriety. They have been hypnotised and continue to live in that trance world.

The only movie I can think of that comes close to it, is “Videodrome” by David Cronenberg. But if you think about it, books like 1984 and their trance inducing mantras also show that totalitarian forces are always at work. I think television definitely encourages you to enter an altered state of consciousness, especially news and entertainment shows.

Maybe your question was rhetorical or you didn’t want it answered. Still, I have wondered for decades how people believe everything they read and see and question nothing.

“What evidence is there that HKS could be loyal to anyone? Maybe he and Larry are sex playmates or even more. “

This really leapt out at me. It’s a known fact that psychopaths will use sex to get what they want, or if it serves other purposes. The suspicions here have always been that HKS has a hold over many people; at the time, I found that hard to believe (duh). It is not out of the realm of possibility that even his dalliance with Larry-the greedy-but-not-so-bright, had a purpose. And anyone who photographs a dead person (Danny) right after the death is just such a crazy sicko and opportunist, that videoed sex for the purposes of blackmail (or even having a witness) seems mundane by comparison.

“She truly was a kidnapped US citizen, being held hostage by those two non-humans. Talk about post-partum blues - that she didn’t commit suicide speaks to her will to survive!!!!”

Eh, with due respect, I am not willing to elevate her to that level. She had no idea of struggle or survival, imo. She was drugged and oblivious. She could never care about Danny or the babe. Addicts are known to have psychopathic traits.

That she was a “kidnapped US citizen”. In a just world, no doubt!