Posted on 01/04/2019 8:20:14 AM PST by Salvation
That would be me bro. 👍🤣😁😂
Kelsey, how’d you end up in Australia, or are you a native there?
Sorry melsec. Autocorrect changed your name to Kelsey!
Which is just what will happen at the great white throne judgment that occurs after the Lord returns, which is the time period this punishment occurs, versus commencing at death, as in Purgatory. Thus Scriptural eschatology is against you.
When the Lord returns believers will also be rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ, "every man according to his own labor" - the quantity and quality of what he helped build the church - with loss of rewards - and the Lord's grievous displeasure - being the only suffering mentioned after this life.
And with the only transformational change being that of the believer resurrection and constitutional conformity to Christ.
And if Cath. Purgatory was what the believers then that would be just as manifestly taught as the judgment seat of Christ - which is not it - and the believer resurrection, rather than you having to attempt to extrapolate it out of unclear texts as Luke 12.
Furthermore, in contrast, besides the time period being contrary to Purgatory the only location mentioned in Luke 12:41-48 is that of being appointed his portion with the unbelievers, while all the servants are those who "prepared not" or who knew not, neither of which describes believers walking in saving, obedient faith. Against which Hebrews 10:25-39 warns.
Try to place the teaching from Jesus nto the context of before the Cross or after The Cross. Big hnt: Did any Hebrew / Israelite gain salvation by keepng the law their entire life?
Another big hint: What did Jesus tell His audience was the work God requires as found in John 6? And contrast that, if you wish, with what He told His Apostles to do AFTER His Resurrection?
Avoiding even the appearance of evil I suppose. Good on VP Pence
Whenever the LORD comes for His servants; one cannot avoid the scripture in which the Messiah clearly taught three levels of punishment for His servants that did not watch (their behavior).
- which once again as said and ignored, does not correspond to Purgatory in which punishment begins at death, and is also for making souls good enough to enter Heaven
In further contrast, as said and ignored, not being prepared or being ignorant of the Lord's will is not correspondent to persevering saving faith.
And as said and ignored, the only location mentioned in this discourse having one's potion with the unbelievers, which thus is correspondent to the final judgment, in which souls are "judged every man according to their works." (Rev 20:13)
Thus Luke 41-48 simply cannot be speaking of Purgatory even on the basis of basic eschatology. Reiterating your desperate apologetic only makes its specious nature more manifest.
Suffer loss, not suffer loss of rewards. Suffer loss, not suffer loss of rewards. Look how ζημιόω to damage, suffer loss is used in the scriptures. It is not loss of rewords. Six occurrences lose his own soul lose his own soul be cast away he shall suffer loss ye might receive damage I have suffered the loss
Which is more isolationist sophistry, for not only does "suffer loss" means "loss" in the majority of cases, but context tells us not only what is being subjected to the fire, but what the loss refers to, which is rewards:
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward . (1Co 3:13-14)
Thus this desperate attempt by you is also - by the mercy and grace of God - exposed for what it is us.
Just believe the text; three levels of punishment when the LORD judges His servants who did not watch (their behavior).
Just believe the text; three levels of punishment when the LORD judges His servants who did not watch (their behavior) simply cannot be Purgatory as it is only correspondent to the final judgment, while even if it referred to 1 Co. 3, that is also disallowed even just on the basis of it not occurring until the Lord returns, besides being works being burned up, not character defects, and being saved despite this loss, not because of them.
The most severe punishment; no Once Saved Always Saved for the one who believes in being saved but did not watch (his works).
Which is what i affirmed, and does not hep your argument. Further reiterations will not make it valid, and you are very close to simply being ignored.
And just what how does that help you? You need to prove that loss does not refer to the opposite of gaining rewards, which is what the context shows it refers to.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; (1Co 3:8-12)
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1Co 3:13-15)
The material one helped build the body of Christ with is tested, and if it endures, then the builder will receive a reward at that time, "the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." (Revelation 11:18. KJV)
And if the material cannot endure the fire, then it is burned, and the builder suffers loss.
All of which occurs at the Lord's return, (1Cor. 3:8ff; 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) with believers who are already with the Lord, not in Purgatory, (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) who is at the right hand of the Father, thus neither personal impurities are being consumed so that one may be with God, nor does this occur at the death of the believer. Thus 1 Cor. 3 is simply not speaking of Purgatory. Even the notes to youy NAB bible recognize this.
The text of ⇒ 1 Cor 3:15 has sometimes been used to support the notion of purgatory, though it does not envisage this.
Note the next portion which was left out ... and certainly fits two of the three types of punishment for disciples as taught by the Messiah in Luke's passage. In those two types (stripes), the disciple is still saved, yet as by fire.
Again, only kind of disciples here are those who did not prepare themselves, and the ignorant, both of whom do not correspond to those walking in obedient saving faith (Hebrew 3:6,12,14) and the only location described her is that of being with believers. No reward at all is mentioned for this class. Thus all you have for support of Purgatory is the principal of punishment corespondent to accountability, which is what we see in Rv. 20:11-15, and would also be a factor in loss or gaining of rewards at the judgment seat of Christ after the Lord's return for believers who are already with the Lord, and which is simply is not corespondent to ongoing "purifying punishments" now in order for one to enter Heaven. And which reality is what the epistles to the church would treach if that was what believers were to look forward to, rather than being with Christ in the presence of the Father.
Now i understand your devotion to Rome and how hard some RCs vainly try to establish RC traditions of men by Scripture, even though that is not to be the basis for our assurance if became faithful RCs, but you need to realize that your desperate untenable attempts are actually an argument against being a RC, and for being s Scripture evangelical. Give it up. i will be back tonite.
And as said and ignored, the only location mentioned in this discourse having one's potion with the unbelievers, which thus is correspondent to the final judgment, in which souls are "judged every man according to their works." (Rev 20:13)>
The above post reads like it is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.
What?! That is EXACTLY what you are doing, as shown. For having one's portion with the unbelievers, and being punished after the Lord's return according to one's deeds and accountability as in Lk. 12:41-48, is indeed clearly correspondent to the final judgment since it occurs after the Lord return, and souls are "judged every man according to their works
In contrast, you are the one introducing "one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text" by making a judgment and punishment which occurs after the Lord's return into one that occurs before the Lord's return, and which souls are experiencing now! In addition to having one's portion with the unbelievers not being correspondent to a ongoing punishment of believers, nor is he "who prepared not himself, neither did according to his will" correspondent t walking in saving faith.
All disciples should be careful not to ignore or give short shrift what the Messiah said about watching one's behavior.
Indeed, for in contrast to him "who prepared not himself, neither did according to his will" "Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." (Hebrews 3:6. KJV) "he that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11. KJV) These are they of penitent characteristic obedience faith, who repent when they are convicted of the opposite.
Here is another way to comprehend the parable: He was speaking to ISRAEL and theiractions as God’s servants with God’s data input, and the results of that data with some using it to inform THE WORLD around them, some not so faithful to HIS directions to them, and some who just out of pride held themselves to be God’s chosen people while condemning the rest of humankind. ... Odd that a Catholic who believes he can earn salvation would avoid that explanation so vigorously ...
The last line of your post, do you understand where that Bema Seat is? It is not on Earth, it is in HEAVEN. Your religion has got you knotted up that you post verses which contradict your assertions yet you are totally unable to see you have contradicted yourself!
I've had a few here just presume I'm a man even though I share information about myself in my Profile that clarifies. There have been some Roman Catholics here who refused to even dialogue with me once they found out I am a woman. They toss out the silly excuse that St. Paul teaches "women should not teach nor usurp authority over a man" as why they won't engage even though this isn't church, they aren't my husband and they HAVE submitted to women as teachers in many areas! If my gender was not known, there was no reluctance to dialoguing on a thread.
I think you should apologize for mocking Elsie and implying he might be a homosexual/transexual based on his screen name. That's just dumb and uncalled for! Discuss the topic, not the person - whom you do not know.
#metoo! ;o)
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