Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin

Yahoo ^ | 5 Oct 2009 | Philip Pullella

[Gamecock]

An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake. The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ. "We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday. A professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, Garlaschelli made available to Reuters the paper he will deliver and the accompanying comparative photographs.

[wagglebee]

You provided the quote below, why is it so difficult to produce a link?

“Mary is on the cross with Christ helping Christ to redeem His sheep”

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I can think of any number of reasons, but it WOULD NOT have been accidental.

Name three.

DR.E: We believe and are saved by grace through faith, both of which are unseen but real.

WAGGLEBEE: The Gospels and early chapters of Acts demonstrate that this was not always the case.

You'll note I said "we." Not the apostles and the hundreds of disciples who also received the grace to believe.

But even those believers were saved by unseen faith. Plenty of people witnessed the miracles of Christ and did not believe. Something else was going on other than mere sight of actual events.

It's called "grace."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

This is the RC method of debate - pick at inconsequentials. It's your dime. Follow your heart. Remove the quotation marks and the sentence still stand in a variety of wordings -- Roman Catholics believe Mary is on the cross with Christ helping Christ to redeem His sheep.

Will the following photo help?

From the following link comes these quotations from the Vatican II Council...

“As St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ... ‘death through Eve, LIFE THROUGH MARY.’ This UNION OF THE MOTHER WITH THE SON IN THE WORK OF SALVATION is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death” (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, chap. 8, II, 56, pp. 380-381).

“Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but BY HER MANIFOLD INTERCESSION CONTINUES TO BRING US THE GIFTS OF ETERNAL SALVATION. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of ADVOCATE, HELPER, BENEFACTRESS, and MEDIATRIX” (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, chap. 8, II, 62, pp. 382-383).

A plaque in the Chapel of the Virgin of the Grace at Saints Vincent and Anastasius Church in Rome says, “Cardinal Benedetto Odescalchi, who became the pope with the name of Innocent XI, initiated THE WORSHIP OF THE IMAGE, placed on the altar in 1677, and wanted his heart to be buried here, not in the main chapel.”

[Old Professer]

I’m not sure if all of us are content to once again stand silently on the shelf between two inflexible bookends while the dust is squeezed out between our pages and the wheeze of the vacuum of history sucks out our pages.

[Marysecretary]

Oh, brother...

[Marysecretary]

Seems to me I recall Josephus writing that he had chestnut colored hair. He did write a description of Jesus but that’s all I know.

[Marysecretary]

LOL.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I don’t have a clue as to what you mean, but you sure said it prettily. 8~)

[Petronski]

Catholics believe Mary is on the cross with Christ helping Christ to redeem His sheep.

Orthodox Presbyterian Calvinists believe God sent Stalin to build the GULAG.

[Petronski]

I've also posted links to the RCC catechism which use these same words and images which is obviously why these Roman Catholics feel free to repeat this theory of Mary as co-redeemer and dispensatrix of all graces as fact.

Really? You found "co-redeemer" in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

[Marysecretary]

Amen, wmfights. One way or another, it makes not one bit of difference to me, but it would be great if it was real.

[Petronski]

Remove the quotation marks and...

So what you represented as a quote was not in fact a quote.

[Petronski]

Seems pretty clear to me. To concoct all this folly about “Mary is on the cross with Christ helping Christ to redeem His sheep” should be so anathema to a Christian that they flee from it.

So that quote is in fact NOT a quote, right?

[Petronski]

One way or another, it makes not one bit of difference to me, but it would be great if it was real.

Congratulations! You agree with the Catholic Church.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I removed the quotations marks and STILL the words and thoughts and concepts are found in ALL the many links I offered.

Deny the printed word all you want. Doesn't change the truth. Rome puts Mary on the cross with Christ, as in this church outside Rome...

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The question was not about the catechism but about the outlandish, blasphemous words found in Roman Catholic links. Try to keep up.

[Petronski]

Deny the printed word all you want.

I don't deny the printed word. I rebuke your manufacture of quotations.

The Catholic Church puts Mary on the cross with Christ

That's a statue of Mother Mary holding the Christ Child, and it is mounted on the back of a crucifix to economize on construction costs.

Or do you claim that the Catholic Church puts Mary and the Infant Christ on the Cross with the adult Christ?

Your anti-Catholic rhetoric is pathetic, as is to be expected from a store-front Calvinist cult that teaches that God sent Pol Pot into the world to slaughter a million Cambodians.

Repent.

[Petronski]

I'm keeping up just fine. You said:

I've also posted links to the Catechism of the Catholic Church which use these same words and images...

And what precedes the word "these?" This:

"...according to the teaching of St. Pio of Pietrelcina, we should be eternally grateful to "our dear Coredemptrix" and to our "Mediatrix and Dispensatrix of all graces.""

St. Pio said this, of course. But where do those same words appear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

[Petronski]

I removed the quotations marks...

Because they were false and you were caught in your deception.

[Marysecretary]

LOL. Don’t apologize, Jewbacca. Many people make the same mistakes and we learned English from childhood. You do just fine.