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'Pope That Never Was' Shows How Close Major Change Can Come to the Papacy [Cardinal Carlo Martini}
SpiritDaily.com ^ | 04-26-06 | SpiritDaily

Posted on 04/26/2006 7:35:34 AM PDT by Salvation

'POPE WHO NEVER WAS' SHOWS HOW CLOSE  MAJOR CHANGE CAN COME TO THE PAPACY

It may be just smoke. Or it may be Benedict's first big test. The issue is condoms -- whether the Church can allow them in unusual cases, in order to save lives -- and it was all kick-started by a prominent  Cardinal who many had on their short lists of papal candidates.

It showed how close the Church can come to leadership by a pontiff with views at strong variance with current policy.

When Time Magazine speculated on a successor to John Paul II, this former archbishop of Milan, Cardinal Carlo Martini, had been listed as one of 12 likeliest candidates.

"According to Italian newspaper accounts, based on rumors and leaked reports, Cardinal Martini won a substantial number of ballots during the first round of voting in the recent conclave," noted a news service at the time.

Some know him as "the pope who never was."

And so there were waves last week when in a dialogue with Ignazio Marino, famous Italian bio-ethicist, which was published in a European periodical called L’Espresso, Cardinal Martini, asked when he felt human life began, replied “not immediately with conception, but after.”

At the earliest stage, argued the Cardinal -- before male and female chromosomes combine, forming new DNA -- there is “no sign of an individually distinguishable life,” and actually it is not yet an embryo (and thus it can be manipulated without any objections of a moral nature, the Cardinal said).

Although the Cardinal had expressed similar views before, the remarks made news because of their lucid presentation and because they were joined by equally strong remarks on euthanasia and condoms.

The Church has long taught that life begins at conception, and such is the basis for its opposition to abortion at any time, as well as to manipulation of the fertilized egg.

Other points Cardinal Martini made included an openness to the insertion into a woman’s womb – even a single woman – of embryos otherwise destined for destruction; allowing fertilization with the sperm or egg from an individual outside a couple if that couple is having trouble conceiving; permitting single persons to adopt children; and use of condoms for spouses when one of them is infected with AIDS (as “a lesser evil”).

When it comes to euthanasia, Cardinal Martini said that such was never to be approved but those who helped a person die should not be condemned if such was done "out of a sentiment of altruism." He felt the same about those who have received abortion.

The Vatican rushed  to respond, restating its position on condoms (through an official from the Pontifical Council for Health and Pastoral Care, presided by Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragán) and on when life begins (which is at conception, reaffirmed the president of the Pontifical Academy for Life, Monsignor Elio Sgreccia).

At the same time, the Holy See is preparing a "study" for internal dialogue, not a "document," on condoms and AIDS, says Cardinal Barragan. There is thus the  possibility -- and only the possibility -- that the Pope could bend slightly, a move that would nevertheless cause a tidal surge. A test this is. Some claim it is more than just a chance.

"The question the study addresses in particular is that of couples united in sacramental marriage, in which one of the spouses suffers from AIDS," reports Zenit New Service. "The study responds first to the question: What guarantee exists to prevent infection with AIDS through a condom? A second question is: Is it morally licit to use a 'technical' condom?"
 
Meanwhile, the remarks of Cardinal Martini, who is a Jesuit, also brought to the fore the issue of that Order, which many have labeled as overly liberal. Just last weekend, after a Mass commemorating St. Ignatius, the Pope reminded Jesuits -- who operate many major universities -- of their vow to be obedient.

In the Pope's first months, a stir was caused when another prominent Jesuit, Father Thomas J. Reese -- editor of America Magazine -- resigned at the request of his order following years of pressure from the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Benedict had headed before becoming Pope.

That move led many to believe that Benedict was indeed a tough enforcer who would weed out the type of liberalism that has been seen as pervading the Jesuits (and other orders).

At the same time, Benedict has been on friendly terms with Cardinal Martini. Just two weeks ago, speaking to youth of Rome, the Pope had suggested to the young people that they read the Cardinal's expert writings on the Scriptures. Thus are indications that Benedict will continue to be a Pope of surprises.

"A Jesuit, Martini embodies the reformist spirit of Catholic progressives. He has for two decades been the 'great white hope' of that constituency, the man most of them would elect to the papacy if they had the chance," noted a liberal Catholic periodical.

Could he actually have made it to the top?

Obviously, he did not. But it was a reminder of what could crop up in the way of like-minded cardinals in the next papal election.

[see also: the Pope who never was, Vatican official: there'll be no change on condoms, Study could approve use of condoms for married couples with AIDS, Ex-Jesuit says devil's image wrong, and No change on when life begins]



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KEYWORDS: aids; cardinalmartini; condoms; dna; embryo; euthanasia; jesuits; reformist; singlewomen
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To: lastchance; FourtySeven

Thank you! If you read further about Pope Vigilius, you will see he is the one of whom I spoke. He went to Rome with Theodora's blessing for the express purpose of supporting the monophysites and then, once in place as the Vicar of Christ, did not commit heresy.

He is a classic example of a papal succession full of intrigue and human frailty that did not compromise the faith--even when that was the purpose.


41 posted on 04/26/2006 11:34:20 AM PDT by pgyanke (Christ has a tolerance for sinners; liberals have a tolerance for sin.)
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To: livius

Aye, St. Teresa was a tough one too. I know. I love her mysticism. Yes the Church doesn't always make life cushy does it? The sexual abuse scandal has made it harder to be a Catholic. When the body is sick, it surely affects everyone. I pray for the Church to wonderful saints like St.Teresa.


42 posted on 04/26/2006 11:35:28 AM PDT by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: FourtySeven
Very true. Just sometimes make me wonder. I know it has to do with the cross and giving of self and love of everyone, including my enemies ... but, its hard sometimes. Thank God for the Mass and the Eucharist. They make everything else bearable and then some.
43 posted on 04/26/2006 11:40:16 AM PDT by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: pgyanke

Somewhat like St. Thomas Becket, who when he finally had the chance to do the King's bidding, did the Lord's instead. It does happen, and one has to hope that the graces of consecration will be stronger than any other allegiances the individual may have made.


44 posted on 04/26/2006 11:41:23 AM PDT by livius
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To: pgyanke; lastchance

Thanks to you both!


45 posted on 04/26/2006 11:47:25 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: klossg
Thank God for the Mass and the Eucharist. They make everything else bearable and then some.

Amen. It's a wonderful Gift from God isn't it? The Mass and Eucharist? There have been many times coming out of Mass my faith was 10 times stronger than going in. Amazing how much power can be packed in an hour. ;) hehe

46 posted on 04/26/2006 11:49:29 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Salvation

Hoo Boy.

I am soooo happy to be out of the loop in this dept.

My opinion does not mean beans!

However, if a condom is not fool proof for transmitting bugs then what good is using them.

In Africa where Aids is epedimic I would hope married couples could be granted use.

Kinda like those who are disabled and careproviders whom the Church will waive fasting and Holy Days of Obligation, even though ya do your best to comply anyway.


47 posted on 04/26/2006 11:57:32 AM PDT by Global2010 (Life takes allot of Prayer and Grit)
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To: RobbyS
The real issue is artificial insemination. The making of embryos in petri dishes or by techniques of animal husbandry.

OK. But once such children are created, they need to be cared for.

48 posted on 04/26/2006 12:03:54 PM PDT by Sloth (Archaeologists test for intelligent design all the time.)
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To: Sloth
OK. But once such children are created, they need to be cared for.

Thank you for a post full of uncommon wisdom and insight. /sarc

49 posted on 04/26/2006 12:13:25 PM PDT by pgyanke (Christ has a tolerance for sinners; liberals have a tolerance for sin.)
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To: Global2010

If they're Catholic married couples living by the law of the Church, they wouldn't be sleeping around and picking up AIDS in the first place.

While it may sound cruel, sometimes the natural consequences of disobedience to God's law can be among the things that make people heed it. Interestingly, I read once that one of the reasons for the success of the Jews was that they tended to live fairly long lives, enabling them to have many children, as a result of the fact that they followed Jewish law and did not eat pork. Trichinosis was endemic in pigs in that area (because pigs were fed garbage and roamed and rooted and picked up larvae) and evidently non-Jewish neighbors who did eat pigs died in large numbers from the disease. Obviously, this is not the case anymore and it has now become more of a sign of identity; but at one time, it had a practical impact.

In the 18th and 19th century England, there was a phrase, the "Marriage Hearse," that described the fact that many men slept around and got syphilis, which was incurable at that time, and passed it on to the decent young women they married - who of course then died of syphilis, but without being in any way responsible for it.

Life is better and probably longer if you live it according to the dictates of the Church and God's law. And the Church has got to hold firm and tell people this; it may be better in many intangible ways, but it is also better in practical ways.

Did you know, for example, that black Catholics in the US have a higher average annual income than white Catholics (even though blacks as a whole have a lower one)? In other words, marrying, staying married, abstaining from violence and crime, and in general obeying the 10 Commandments and the commandments of the Church are a good basis for a successful life, as well as for avoiding death from STD's, and all this without even going into the consideration of eternity...


50 posted on 04/26/2006 12:29:22 PM PDT by livius
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To: Convert from ECUSA

ping


51 posted on 04/26/2006 12:38:06 PM PDT by iluvlucy (swim the Tiber, the water is fine)
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To: Sloth

They are and always will be cared for, although, ironically, probably only by the Church. The Church takes in humanity that most people don't even recognize as such - the lame, the halt and the blind.

But the point the Church is making is that humans should not be doing this sort of playing at God and randomly, or for money, setting off the process that results in the creation of new human life.

However, the Church is always there, just as Christians were there to pick up abandoned babies on the hillsides of Rome in the first centuries. Plain old sex outside of marriage is not okay, either, but the Church has always had orphanages for abandoned bastard children. But the fact that Catholics go along picking up the debris left behind by the world in its wild flight does not mean that the Church does or should approve the behavior that led to this.


52 posted on 04/26/2006 12:38:16 PM PDT by livius
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To: pgyanke

It is indeed uncommon. The conventional wisdom, in this culture of death, is that such unwanted children should be discarded as garbage.


53 posted on 04/26/2006 12:39:15 PM PDT by Sloth (Archaeologists test for intelligent design all the time.)
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To: livius

You must be dipping from the same well for quotes as my Priest. He mentioned the very same thing during his sermon this past Sunday. You were not visiting a different state this past Sunday where you??????


54 posted on 04/26/2006 12:45:25 PM PDT by iluvlucy (swim the Tiber, the water is fine)
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To: iluvlucy

LOL! No, but the Saints have said it all for us...


55 posted on 04/26/2006 12:57:02 PM PDT by livius
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Catholic historian Warren Carroll has noted that a surprising number of popes in the last 2000 years have only lived a month or two, and then keeled over unexpectedly.

During the Middle Ages, quite a few of them had help with the "keeling over".

56 posted on 04/26/2006 1:03:21 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: klossg

Look at some of the anti-popes..Some of these loons were heading the church for 6 to 15 years and catholics were forced to decide who the real pope was......But,the church has never floundered,no matter how hard anti catholics in the church tried to destroy her...Over 2,000 years of heretics and haters trying to wipe out the catholic church and unable to do so....Over 2,000 years and counting...GO CATHOLICS!!!!!!!!!!


57 posted on 04/26/2006 1:11:13 PM PDT by fishbabe
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To: steve-b

Personally, I always thought that JPI had had a bit of help in that direction.

But I can't stay to post any longer - I've got to go off and adjust my tinfoil hat. And maybe check to see if anybody's beaming anything into my fillings...


58 posted on 04/26/2006 1:25:16 PM PDT by livius
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To: Salvation
I just finished Anne Roche Muggeridge's The Desolate City I highly recommend it. It details the disaster that occurred in the Church after VII. Her detailing of the outright atheism, paganism, feminism and communism within the Church at that time was frightening.

Fortunately, it seems that the Church has turned a corner despite folks like Martini still hanging around.

59 posted on 04/26/2006 3:07:43 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (The Stations of the Cross in Poetry ---> http://www.wayoftears.com)
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To: Jaded

Check your e-mail...


60 posted on 04/26/2006 6:39:03 PM PDT by padfoot_lover
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