This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
Locked on 04/19/2004 7:52:52 PM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:
This thread has 183 abuse reports. It’s now locked. Maybe you can all get along better on the next thread. |
Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Rilly? I'd never thought of that. But now that you mention it, I shall adopt this as my doctrine as well. I think I've said it before, but it only counts when I say it in agreement with you, I guess.
That the Holy Spirit quickened them and restored the will that was in bondage because of the fall ...and you say ?
We would say that the Holy Spirit draws us and those who respond are then quickened. But you already knew that, you just can't fathom it. And further, that the sin of the first Adam is overcome by the grace of the second, and that this prevenient grace draws all unto God.
Certainly not. And since I know how important italics, caps and the like are, I have taken my liberties with the formatting of the text as follows:
Romans2:14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do BY NATURE things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, THEIR CONSCIENCES ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts NOW accusing, NoW eVeN defending them.
Some people are raised in an environment more conducive to receiving the Gospel. Some are in situations more conducive to receiving the Gospel.
What does God say in His word?
Yes, nevermind how God's word interacts with human experience. Let's propositionally quantify it to death. I expect much vitriol and righteous indignation at my response. Please do not disappoint.
So then the scripture is wrong the Father does not draw, it is the Holy Spirit?
Can I have some scripture not just your opinion? :>)
Only one of us is posting the word of God.
Scripture that the Holy Spirit draws not the Father and scripture that what we call General grace (you call Prevenient grace draws every one to salvation and then it is theirs to loose.)
At the risk of beating a mostly dead horse, Mom, I don't think you "went over the line." I think that what you said is well within the bounds of how we converse on this thread. I do think you applied a double standard to Cindy's interpretation of your beliefs as opposed to how you intepret other's beliefs. And over and above an apology, a recognition of this would be far more desirable. But that's just me.
To try to limit a function or characteristic of God to a certain member of the Trinity is absolutely inane. The same characteristics are listed as applying to both Jesus, the Father and the Spirit in multiple places.
Only one of us is posting the word of God.
If you cannot recognize Biblical themes and content then I cannot make you do so. If you are so unfamiliar with the Bible that you do not know of the first and second Adam parallelism, then we are at cross purposes. If you'd like me to spew out some Scripture following each theological point I make, I'm sure I could. After all, if a person can't find a Scripture to support their idea (no matter half-cocked or offbeat the idea is), they really aren't trying hard enough.
But if a wicked man turns away from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness which he has done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? (Ezekiel 18:21-23)
The repentence of the sinner pleases God.
This does not say that unregenerate man can come to Christ without being regenerated . This is a teaching of Paul that we all need a Savior, that all men know the law (without the law there is no sin) from the tablets or the heart . . They know when they "sin" as their conscience tells them and accuses them . They are ruled as guilty and as much in need of a Savior as the Jews.
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Paul sums up the need for a Savior in the next chapter
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
The clear doctrine that Paul is attempting to teach is man needs a Saviour . He goes on to teach we can not find that Savior ourselves. We do not understand the scriptures nor do we seek God . We have all gone out of our way
Right. Which is exactly what I said. We just disagree about when the regeneration takes place. You think we are prepared for salvation by regeneration. I think we are regenerated by salvation.
So then why does Jesus make distinctions on the roles of the various members of the Trinity?
He said the Father draws , the Son saves and judges and the Holy Spirit teaches and convicts . I would say there is a reason for it never being said that the Holy Spirit draws.
If you cannot recognize Biblical themes and content then I cannot make you do so. If you are so unfamiliar with the Bible that you do not know of the first and second Adam parallelism, then we are at cross purposes. If you'd like me to spew out some Scripture following each theological point I make, I'm sure I could. After all, if a person can't find a Scripture to support their idea (no matter half-cocked or offbeat the idea is), they really aren't trying hard enough.
Obviously we do not agree on the" themes "and so only reference the Scripture make this anymore than suppositional doctrine . I am asking for scriptural proof of what you say is true . Some times that can be various verses, or it can be a summary of biblically taught truths.
Presumably Paul is here citing Psalm 14.
Do you think the psalmist meant this literally? Do you think that he intended to apply it to every human who ever lived?
Base , that is about 75% of the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism
Do you want to discuss this difference tomorrow? It is a significant difference and the heart of why Calvinists see Arminianism a work based salvation and Arminians think Calvinists are on "a short string"
Lowe's Customer Bitten by Rattlesnake
BROKEN ARROW, Okla. -
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.