Disturbing excerpts from interview with Cardinal Mahony (leftist in charge of LA Diocese)

RE Congress website ^ | 02-20-04 | online interview

[AAABEST]

Leonel M: Mel Gibson's upcoming movie "The Passion of the Christ" has had more than its share of headlines for the last year or more. But what is the relationship of Gibson's church near Malibu to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles? Is it part of a schismatic group?

Cardinal: I know nothing about the Church in Malibu. It is certainly not in communion with the Universal Catholic Church nor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

I have never met Mr. Gibson, and he does not participate in any parish of this Archdiocese. He, apparently, has chosen to live apart from the communion of the Catholic Church. I pray for him.

The Holy Spirit is promised to the Church, as well as the presence of Jesus: "Behold, I am with you all days until the end of the world." Those words were spoken to the Church, not to an individual in any century.

Moderator: We have several related questions about Mel Gibson; I'll try to summarize them. Many people have the impression that Mel Gibson is -- for lack of a better word -- a "regular" Catholic. Could you briefly explain the Catholic traditionalist movement?

Cardinal: Actually, there is no such thing as the "Catholic traditionalist, modernist, movement." Either one is in full communion with the Catholic Church, in unity with the Successor of Peter, or not. One cannot pick and choose which Pope to follow, especially dead ones, or which teaching to follow -- and then set aside the rest. Such people may be very nice people, but that doesn't make them "Catholic" in the true sense.

Even the media is beginning "to get it" about these groups. We must give full assent to the Creed and all that the Church teaches.

Moderator: So if Mel Gibson does not accept the Church's teachings as outlined in Vatican II documents, he's "not Catholic in the true sense"?

Cardinal: The Sixteen Documents of the Second Vatican Council constitute the accurate, authentic teaching of the Church. Those teachings are now contained in the Catechism of the Church. If one chooses to set aside any of those, then they choose to separate themselves from the unity of the Church. Keep in mind that the first temptation of Adam and Eve was precisely this: Satan told them, "you will be like gods, choosing good and evil." Wrong.

Moderator: Users also ask if you plan to see "The Passion of the Christ."

Cardinal: Someone has offered to give me a VHS of the movie, and I will view it.

Runecaster95: Is it acceptable for Catholics to participate in acts of devotion such as Zen meditation and Hindu chanting, providing the emphasis remains on Christ?

Cardinal: Any form of prayer and meditation that helps us deepen our life in Jesus Christ is a positive. We might call the same type of prayer "centering prayer," or "Christian mantra."

Jane M.: Who do you think goes to heaven? Do you think people of other religions will be there? Do people who haven't accepted Christ as their savior go to heaven when they die?

Cardinal: As the Second Vatican Council teaches us, it is the Church's belief that everyone goes to heaven "through the salvific merits of Jesus Christ." Therefore, if they belong to another faith community, we believe that it is still the merits of Jesus' Paschal Mystery that enables them to reach the Kingdom of God.

Keep in mind that each of us "chooses" our final destiny, and God continually calls to us to return home.

[Salvation]

What diocese is Sklstad in? I haven't seen that name before?

[Salvation]

From The Catechism of the Catholic Church search for celebacy and chastity:

1599 In the Latin Church the sacrament of Holy Orders for the presbyterate is normally conferred only on candidates who are ready to embrace celibacy freely and who publicly manifest their intention of staying celibate for the love of God's kingdom and the service of men.

---

1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities. Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.

---

1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven." Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to "the affairs of the Lord," they give themselves entirely to God and to men. Celibacy is a sign of this new life to the service of which the Church's minister is consecrated; accepted with a joyous heart celibacy radiantly proclaims the Reign of God.

---

[franky]

Yes and on another web site there has been an on going debate about the Catholic and Protestant faiths...until the movie opened.

It seems all have joined hands, dropped the debate and are speaking in unison.

[Deo volente]

DRAGONS IN PROCESSION TO THE ALTAR OF THE LA CATHEDRAL

(I'm not making this up.)

http://the-tidings.com/2004/0130/chinese4.htm

[franky]

Father Trigilio and Father Nevis would flip over this picture of a glass chalice which is strictly forbidden by the Church.

[aikido7]

Celebration should be in the human heart, not prancing around close to the presence of God. God should be feared, not be cast as a dance partner!

Raising an arm or two in the air among the worshippers should be as far as one goes.

[aikido7]

Patriarichal stern Father image trumps nurturing parent image every time!

[aikido7]

Jesus said the Father makes the sun to shine on both the good and the evil and causes rain to fall on both the just and the unjust.

[Dajjal]

Cardinal: As the Second Vatican Council teaches us, it is the Church's belief that everyone goes to heaven "through the salvific merits of Jesus Christ."

Everyone is going to heaven.

I mean, everyone except Mel Gibson, of course.

[saradippity]

Skystad is from the diocese of Spokane. He replaced a very bad bishop named Welch,who was a bad man,as is Skylstad. I have been mentioning him as one of the ones to watch for over a year,he is in position to be the next Chairman of the USCCB.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

That one deserves posting.

I'm getting a little nervous with Mahony's dragon on the doors and now this pic. The only dragon I know of in the Bible is in Revelation and it is NOT a good thing.

[heyheyhey]

If Mahoney were my Ordinary, I probably would be forced to seek sanctuary in the SSPX.

That's why the SSPXers - especially from LA - deserve extra charitable treatment. :)

[heyheyhey]

"If one is a celibate homosexual, how would anybody know?"

Well, then, me lad, on what basis do you assert the existence of celibate homosexuals?

Yayks!!!!!

;-D

[BlackElk]

Throw the bum out!

[BlackElk]

The Novus Ordo pastor in my town teaches that "centering prayer" helps us to focus our attention on God and thereby clear away the distractions of the world. An example of "centering prayer" according to him is: "Jesus, Son of God, Whose sacrifice on the cross atoned for our sins, have mercy on me, a poor sinner." If there is something wrong with that, I fail to see it. Do you believe that a centering prayer of that sort is wrong? Why?

[AAABEST]

I don't see anything wrong with that at all. In fact it's commendable Try meditating with some Gregorian chants sometime.

[LadyDoc]

Cardinal: Someone has offered to give me a VHS of the movie, and I will view it.

VHS? VHS? What's that?

Mahoney posits himself as "hip" and "with it"...?VHS? That is SOOOO old fashioned.

One telling thing about going to the Passion movie was that the usher told us to turn off our cellphones...when asked for a show of hands on how many had cellphones, two thirds put up their hands...

Cell phones are a mark of youth, and those up to date. Two thirds of the audience was young people...there is something profound about leaving a movie and seeing a punk dressed like a goth, complete with ear/face/nose piercings looking stunned and teary eyed.

For most elders, it was a gory movie. For my Philippino husband--as with many Spanish and Italians, the vivid sufferings of Christ is common in art. But for the youth, who see stylized gore in many movies but are taught "jesus lite", it was a profound movie.

As for "anti semitism": The leaders and mob scenes reminded me more of the Palestinian mobs on LGF than of anything that had to do with Judism, except for Mary holding Jesus, which reminded me of Israeli mothers holding bleeding children after a "homicide bombing" of buses carrying school children...

[AAABEST]

Cardinal: Someone has offered to give me a VHS of the movie, and I will view it.

Heh. What gets me is that he sounds like a kid who has to take some kind of nasty medicine, almost as if he's being forced to see it.

[LadyDoc]

Like it or not, for better or for worse, he is the Ordinary of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. He is a successor to the Apostles - in full communion with Peter. He does have the authentic spiritual authority for his See. I don't know the full story of Mel Gibson's status with the Church, but I do know that none of us has any right or authority to "excommunicate" the Cardinal.

yes, we know.

When Mother Angelica tried to point out to Mahoney about the heresy in one of his "liturgy" documents, Mahoney tried to get her thrown out of the church...she had to apologize to him on camera (and did so, tongue firmly in cheek).

And then Keating left or was fired from the Bishop's abuse council, saying Mahoney was the last straw...

Look, we know that Mahoney is legally correct.

But after living in a "liberal" Minnesota diocese, believe me if it hadn't been 70 miles to the nearest SSPX church, I would have gone there for mass, just to have a mass where Jesus was proclaimed...hell, our priest used to preach about how it was necessary to help the poor-- in an area where two thirds of the congregation was Native American, many who were poor, and many who raised grandchildren on tiny pensions. Every week they were essentially criticized for not serving the "preferential option for the poor" because they didn't give money so rich yuppies could "volunteer" to work sympathetically with druggies so the druggies could know they were "loved" and didn't have to change their bad habits, such as deserting their kids and stealing their mom's pension checks...

[TradicalRC]

That sounds suspiciously like the Jesus prayer from Bunyan's Way of the Pilgrim. I like the term Jesus prayer better.

One of the signs of creeping secularism in the Church is the names chosen for different Church affiliated groups. I recall my grandmother belonging to the Holy Name Society and various other groups with religious monikers. Now they have names like Diocesan Conference of Catholic Women; a decidedly bureaucratic sounding name.