Disturbing excerpts from interview with Cardinal Mahony (leftist in charge of LA Diocese)

RE Congress website ^ | 02-20-04 | online interview

[AAABEST]

Leonel M: Mel Gibson's upcoming movie "The Passion of the Christ" has had more than its share of headlines for the last year or more. But what is the relationship of Gibson's church near Malibu to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles? Is it part of a schismatic group?

Cardinal: I know nothing about the Church in Malibu. It is certainly not in communion with the Universal Catholic Church nor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

I have never met Mr. Gibson, and he does not participate in any parish of this Archdiocese. He, apparently, has chosen to live apart from the communion of the Catholic Church. I pray for him.

The Holy Spirit is promised to the Church, as well as the presence of Jesus: "Behold, I am with you all days until the end of the world." Those words were spoken to the Church, not to an individual in any century.

Moderator: We have several related questions about Mel Gibson; I'll try to summarize them. Many people have the impression that Mel Gibson is -- for lack of a better word -- a "regular" Catholic. Could you briefly explain the Catholic traditionalist movement?

Cardinal: Actually, there is no such thing as the "Catholic traditionalist, modernist, movement." Either one is in full communion with the Catholic Church, in unity with the Successor of Peter, or not. One cannot pick and choose which Pope to follow, especially dead ones, or which teaching to follow -- and then set aside the rest. Such people may be very nice people, but that doesn't make them "Catholic" in the true sense.

Even the media is beginning "to get it" about these groups. We must give full assent to the Creed and all that the Church teaches.

Moderator: So if Mel Gibson does not accept the Church's teachings as outlined in Vatican II documents, he's "not Catholic in the true sense"?

Cardinal: The Sixteen Documents of the Second Vatican Council constitute the accurate, authentic teaching of the Church. Those teachings are now contained in the Catechism of the Church. If one chooses to set aside any of those, then they choose to separate themselves from the unity of the Church. Keep in mind that the first temptation of Adam and Eve was precisely this: Satan told them, "you will be like gods, choosing good and evil." Wrong.

Moderator: Users also ask if you plan to see "The Passion of the Christ."

Cardinal: Someone has offered to give me a VHS of the movie, and I will view it.

Runecaster95: Is it acceptable for Catholics to participate in acts of devotion such as Zen meditation and Hindu chanting, providing the emphasis remains on Christ?

Cardinal: Any form of prayer and meditation that helps us deepen our life in Jesus Christ is a positive. We might call the same type of prayer "centering prayer," or "Christian mantra."

Jane M.: Who do you think goes to heaven? Do you think people of other religions will be there? Do people who haven't accepted Christ as their savior go to heaven when they die?

Cardinal: As the Second Vatican Council teaches us, it is the Church's belief that everyone goes to heaven "through the salvific merits of Jesus Christ." Therefore, if they belong to another faith community, we believe that it is still the merits of Jesus' Paschal Mystery that enables them to reach the Kingdom of God.

Keep in mind that each of us "chooses" our final destiny, and God continually calls to us to return home.

[sinkspur]

We don't need any lectures from a modernist point of view.

We don't need any lectures. Period.

[ninenot]

Sinky has no more evidence that "celibate homosexuals" exist than YOU do that all homosexuals are practicing sodomy.

While the Canon law does not forbid Ordination of homosexuals, there's a Vatican document which clearly discourages it (written in the early 1960's.)

Prudence would restrain most men from ordaining a known homosexual, regardless of their celibacy.

And that prudence was proven in spades with the issuance of the report over the weekend: 80% of the molestations were homosexual.

[sinkspur]

Sinky has no more evidence that "celibate homosexuals" exist than YOU do that all homosexuals are practicing sodomy.

Well, Fr. Richard Neuhaus thinks there are many celibate homosexuals in the priesthood as well, and that they are good men and good priests.

There have always been homosexuals in the priesthood, and there always will be.

[narses]

Take your pick, the disturbed Abp. of Los Angeles, or the Passion of Christ! BTW, there are pictures of the Mahoney "Black Mass" with "native" (read that Islamic) dress out there somewhere. I posted them last year. The horrific stories from the hellhole that is the LA seminary would curl the toenails of the worst sinner.

[narses]

Don't fall into the trap. There are no "homosexuals". There are people who commit homosexual acts, there are people with disordered attractions, but there are NO homosexuals. Neither those who commit homosexual acts nor those with disordered attractions are fit for ordination. That is clear as plate glass.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The letter of canon law may not specifically prohibit a bishop or diocese from hiring the grand master of an aggressive anti-Catholic secret society from conducting the psychological and psychiatric "screening" of seminary candidates or from teaching philosophy or theology at a Catholic college, but the basic Catholic moral principles underlying ALL of Catholic teaching (including prudence and common sense) would seem to make that a good idea. The duty of bishops and priests to protect the faithful from evil influences and anti-Catholic agitation, vandalism, and terrorism would fall under prudence and basic common sense, in agreement with natural and divine law.

For canon law to contdradict natural law or divine law is grotesquely absurd and ridiculous in the extreme. It's an absurd modernist travesty.

[sinkspur]

There are no "homosexuals".

The Church says there are.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

If Mahoney were my Ordinary, I probably would be forced to seek sanctuary in the SSPX. I find it so sad that a man like him runs an entire archdiocese, his pride in the doors of the Cathedral shocks me, it is abomination. When will the Church be rid of this modernist bishops?

Though in another light, this hit me recently. Humanae Vitae, ignored by modernists, practiced by Conservatives/Orthodox and Traditionalists. In 30 or 40 years, the liberals will be bred out of existence, sheer demographics. Just a positive thought.

[dsc]

"Do you have any evidence that "celibate homosexuals" actually exist?"

Sure! They told him so. Course, if he wanted to he could easily find out differently, but that's *way* outside his comfort zone.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

In 30 or 40 years, the liberals will be bred out of existence, sheer demographics. Just a positive thought. 48 posted on 03/01/2004 8:08:06 PM PST by NWU Army ROTC

It's already happening. That's part of the reason why anti-Catholic agitators and some liberals get so rambunctious and hyped up. They are afraid. But (and here's the sickeningly depraved and hilarious part) they are so deep in their hypocrisy they can't give up on their self-genocide. Their "wombs as tombs" lifestyle in the culture of death is starting to get under their skin. They even want to ban (by law) couples from having more than 2 kids!!!

[ultima ratio]

Authority exists to protect the Catholic faith. Insofar as it opposes faith itself, it delegitimizes itself.

[TradicalRC]

I would love to see pictures of the doors along with the book explaining the symbols. I am sure we would have a very interesting thread going.

[VermiciousKnid]

Amazing.

Mel Gibson, a Catholic who dares to worship in a traditional manner and who has possibly made the finest film ever put in the can about the Holy Sacrifice of our Savior is a bad boy, but it's perfectly OK to engage in "centering prayer" and Heaven knows what-all else...

And I thought I had it bad here in the Diocese of Rockville Centre.

Regards,

[american colleen]

Well, Fr. Richard Neuhaus thinks there are many celibate homosexuals in the priesthood as well, and that they are good men and good priests.

Fr. Neuhaus also stated on "World Over Live" last Friday that he now leans towards the "Bevilaqua" theory (his words) and explained that given the last couple of years, the evidence of this week and the advice of the board, he embraces not admitting homosexuals to the seminary.

[Unam Sanctam]

As the Second Vatican Council teaches us, it is the Church's belief that everyone goes to heaven "through the salvific merits of Jesus Christ."

The Second Vatican Council does NOT teach universal automatic salvation. One can reject God to the last, or not follow the law of God written in one's heart.

[ultima ratio]

It is also well to look at the Gospels and how Jesus treated religious authority in His own day. He angrily denounced the Pharisees for inventing their own tradition (the oral Mishnah which later became the Talmud), while neglecting the real tradition of Scripture and the prophets. He also disdained their fixation on the letter of the law while neglecting its spirit.

I find that a great danger of latterday Catholics who decide who is in and who is out of the Catholic Church based on legal niceties. Gibson is said to be out--because he doesn't kowtow to Mahony or to his brand of Catholicism. But Gibson knows the situation in the Church is abnormal and this calls for a different response. Besides, he is on fire with faith--which to Mahony probably counts for little.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Ask and you shall receive.






Church doors symbolize a bridge over which we may travel back and forth across the ages on our journey of faith. The great Bronze Doors, situated on the southeast side of the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, were designed by the Mexican born, Los Angeles sculptor, Robert Graham. Nearly five years in the making, they were built by some 150 artists.


Graham divided the 30' X 30' space for the South Doors into five, geometrically balanced shapes. First he apportioned the height and width into thirds, and took the top third as the tympanum (ornamental space). The remaining two-third was divided again into thirds, forming the two large, L-shaped doors surrounding two inner doors. He created a door within a door, with four separate parts that operate in various configurations as they open and close.

Though most great doors into cathedrals are full of images of holy men and women and biblical stories from the Old and New Testaments, Graham's doors are different than any Christian worship space in the world. Graham considers that these other doors were "history books and storytelling books," in an age before printing or before general literacy. The need for this depiction is no longer necessary. Rather, he preferred to create images that are "culturally recognizable."



Beginning at the bottom of the inner doors, Graham has sculpted in relief a grapevine, symbolizing the Church. Folded in the grapevine are 40 ancient symbols that represent pre-Christian images from Europe, Asia, Africa and North America. The images include the eagle, griffin, goose, Southwest Indian Flying Serpent, bee, hand, ostrich, dove, Chinese turtle, Samoan kava bowl, the Native American Chumash man, the dolphin, the Tree of Jesse, Tai Chi, and many others. The number 40 is a mystical number in Scripture from 40 years of the Israelites wandering in the desert, Jesus' 40 days in the desert, and His ascension 40 days after Easter, among others.

Numerology played an important part in the design of the doors in abstract connotations. He considers the most important being 3 for the Trinity in the triangle shape and 4 for the Gospels, and their combination equaling 7, also an important number in Scripture.

Progressing above the ancient part of the doors are different visions of the Virgin from images that are European in origin, but have been filtered through the indigenous cultures that the Europeans brought to Christianize the New World. They include such images as the Immaculate Conception, the Virgin of Guadalupe, the Pietá, the Mater Dolorosa, the Virgin of Pomata, Virgin of the Rosary of Chichinquira, Divine Shepherdess, Virgin of the Cave, Virgin of the Candlestick, Virgin of Mercy, and others.



The immense outer doors, each in the shape of an inverted L, are hollow, narrowing from a yard wide at the far left and right to just inches wide in the middle. Although they weigh 25 tons, they open easily, rotating on steel posts with a sophisticated hydraulic system. The powerful motor can open either the solid inner doors or the hollow outer doors or, for maximum effect, the two pairs of doors in majestic sequence.

The doors each are scored with seven diagonal lines, perhaps suggesting the seven cardinal virtues or the seven sacraments. The lines also form various triangles evoking the Holy Trinity and leading directly to the Our Lady of the Angels' statue above.



The ornamental space above the pair of bronze doors contains the 8 foot image of Our Lady of the Angels. The modern figure is presented as a woman "clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet" (Revelations 12:1). The halo shaft above her head shines God's light on her as the sun travels from east to west.

Mary does not wear the traditional veil. Her arms are bare, outstretched to welcome all. Her carriage is confident, and her hands are strong, the hands of a working woman. From the side can be seen a thick braid of hair down her back that summons thoughts of Native American or Latina women. Other characteristics, such as her eyes, lips and nose convey Asian, African and Caucasian features. Without the conventional regal trappings of jewels, crown or layers of clothing, she has a dignity that shines from within.

Originally, two bronzed angels were to be placed one on each side of Our Lady of the Angels. However, the first Spanish name for Los Angeles was El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora, Reina de los Angeles. Mary is Queen of Los Angeles, so the people in her city are her angels.



(Left Inner Door, left to right)

1. Virgin of Pomata -- This image from the Andes village comes from the late-colonial School of Cuzco. Mary wears a feathered Inca headdress and a billowing dress suggestive of Pachamama, the Inca mountain goddess.

2. Apocalyptic Virgin/Immaculate Conception - Inspired by Revelations 12, Mary is depicted with powerful wings crushing the Satanic serpent. The lily symbolizes her purity.

3. Ex Voto to Virgin of Guadalupe - As the text below the image indicates, the child was healed by the mother's prayers to the Virgin of Guadalupe. The mother has left this picture at the Guadalupe shrine as an offering, an ex voto (from the Latin "out of vow"), to thank Mary for her intercession.

4. Divine Shepherdess - Mary is depicted reclining in the field with four sheep to commemorate her appearance to a holy Spanish monk.

5. Virgin of the Candlestick with Virgins of Belén - The large image shows Mary again in a billowing dress from the School of Cuzco. She holds a blanket over her arm and cradles the infant Jesus. The small images are of Mary as she appeared in Belén, Peru.

6. Virgin of the Rosary of Chichinquira - St. Andrew flanks Mary on the right and St. Anthony on the left. St. Anthony , known as "the Christographer" is depicted with an image of Jesus on a book. Robert Graham used his mother's rosary to adorn the image.

7. Virgin of Mercy - The souls in Purgatory are protected by the Virgin's cloak as they beg for her intercession.

(Right Inner Door, left to right)

8. Virgin of Guadalupe - In remembrance of her appearance to Aztec peasant, St. Juan Diego, the image depicts the thornless roses she instructed him to pluck in the cold of winter. Mary stands on the moon, with the sun over her head (Revelations).

9. Virgin of the Cave - In the Spanish Caribbean this image of Mary was miraculously recovered from a cave and could bring about miracles.

10. Virgin of Montserrat -One of the "Black Madonnas" of Europe, Mary holds a black Jesus in this image from Catalonia.

11. Pietá - Depicted often in historic works of art, this is the image of Mary embracing her crucified Son.

12. Chalice with Sheep - The sheep of Christ's flock drink His blood, which spurts from His pierced hand into the chalice, reminding of the Eucharist.

13. Mater Dolorosa, the Sorrowful Mother - At the top of Mary's image are the tools of the Crucifixion.
14. La Mano Todopodereosa, the All-Powerful Hand -Anna, Mary, Jesus, Joseph, Joachim are depicted on the five fingers. Anna and Joachim were Mary's parents.

15. Virgin of Loreto with Litany of Loreto - Mary is depicted with angels. Excerpts from the Litany of Loreto fill in the background, including "Queen of Poland" in honor of Pope John Paul II.



Left Inner Door, beginning first row on left, top to bottom)

1. Goose
2. Southwest Indian Flying Serpent
3. Chumash Man
4. Peacock Barge
5. Griffin
6. Chinese Turtle
7. Ibis
8. Griffin
9. Fish
10. Hand of God
11. Eagle (St. John the Evangelist)
12. Dove
13. Bee
14. Celtic Serpents
15. Stag
16. Croatian Cross
17. Chumash Condor
18. Peacock
19. Falling Man
20. Tree of Jesse

(Right Inner Door, beginning first row, top to bottom)

21. Energy (soul)
22. Lion
23. Water
24. Lamb
25. Hand (listening symbol)
26. Chinese/Japanese Heaven Symbol
27. Pair of Ostriches
28. Rooster
29. Bull (St. Luke the Evangelist)
30. Trefoil (Celtic Trinity)
31. Dog
32. Sicilian Legs (regeneration symbol)
33. Bull
34. Serpent/Dragon
35. I Ching/Ti Chi
36. Samoan Kava Bowl
37. Foot
38. Celtic Monster
39. Raven Eating Man's Liver
40. Dolphin

Learn more about the ARTIST.


http://www.olacathedral.org/

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

[ultima ratio]

Mahony reminds me of Herod whom Jesus called "that fox."

[narses]

He was mine. From there to Skylstad's Pink Palace. Yuck. BTW, Skylstad will be the next Chair of the USCCB. He is a direct connection to the Hunthausen/Mahoney wing of preverts.