Siiiiiiiick!
Then this fool advocates heathen hindu and zen prayer and in the same breath dares condemn those of us who worship Christ. From elsewhere on his site.
![](http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/events/med_MVC-840S.jpg")
"Liturgical Dance"
"Jazz Liturgy"
Posted on 03/01/2004 5:20:53 PM PST by AAABEST
Leonel M: Mel Gibson's upcoming movie "The Passion of the Christ" has had more than its share of headlines for the last year or more. But what is the relationship of Gibson's church near Malibu to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles? Is it part of a schismatic group?
Cardinal: I know nothing about the Church in Malibu. It is certainly not in communion with the Universal Catholic Church nor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.
I have never met Mr. Gibson, and he does not participate in any parish of this Archdiocese. He, apparently, has chosen to live apart from the communion of the Catholic Church. I pray for him.
The Holy Spirit is promised to the Church, as well as the presence of Jesus: "Behold, I am with you all days until the end of the world." Those words were spoken to the Church, not to an individual in any century.
Moderator: We have several related questions about Mel Gibson; I'll try to summarize them. Many people have the impression that Mel Gibson is -- for lack of a better word -- a "regular" Catholic. Could you briefly explain the Catholic traditionalist movement?
Cardinal: Actually, there is no such thing as the "Catholic traditionalist, modernist, movement." Either one is in full communion with the Catholic Church, in unity with the Successor of Peter, or not. One cannot pick and choose which Pope to follow, especially dead ones, or which teaching to follow -- and then set aside the rest. Such people may be very nice people, but that doesn't make them "Catholic" in the true sense.
Even the media is beginning "to get it" about these groups. We must give full assent to the Creed and all that the Church teaches.
Moderator: So if Mel Gibson does not accept the Church's teachings as outlined in Vatican II documents, he's "not Catholic in the true sense"?
Cardinal: The Sixteen Documents of the Second Vatican Council constitute the accurate, authentic teaching of the Church. Those teachings are now contained in the Catechism of the Church. If one chooses to set aside any of those, then they choose to separate themselves from the unity of the Church. Keep in mind that the first temptation of Adam and Eve was precisely this: Satan told them, "you will be like gods, choosing good and evil." Wrong.
Moderator: Users also ask if you plan to see "The Passion of the Christ."
Cardinal: Someone has offered to give me a VHS of the movie, and I will view it.
Runecaster95: Is it acceptable for Catholics to participate in acts of devotion such as Zen meditation and Hindu chanting, providing the emphasis remains on Christ?
Cardinal: Any form of prayer and meditation that helps us deepen our life in Jesus Christ is a positive. We might call the same type of prayer "centering prayer," or "Christian mantra."
Jane M.: Who do you think goes to heaven? Do you think people of other religions will be there? Do people who haven't accepted Christ as their savior go to heaven when they die?
Cardinal: As the Second Vatican Council teaches us, it is the Church's belief that everyone goes to heaven "through the salvific merits of Jesus Christ." Therefore, if they belong to another faith community, we believe that it is still the merits of Jesus' Paschal Mystery that enables them to reach the Kingdom of God.
Keep in mind that each of us "chooses" our final destiny, and God continually calls to us to return home.
Siiiiiiiick!
Then this fool advocates heathen hindu and zen prayer and in the same breath dares condemn those of us who worship Christ. From elsewhere on his site.
That said, I find nothing heretical/leftist/etc. about his comments in this interview to the extent that they are reported (though I'd like to ask follow-ups on certain of his latter responses). His comments early on about authority in the Church are clearly spot-on and any Catholic should recognize that fact.
Like it or not, for better or for worse, he is the Ordinary of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. He is a successor to the Apostles - in full communion with Peter. He does have the authentic spiritual authority for his See. I don't know the full story of Mel Gibson's status with the Church, but I do know that none of us has any right or authority to "excommunicate" the Cardinal.
He, and he alone, is the Pastor of the See of Los Angeles. If he is imcompetent or breaking Church Laws, take it up through the Canon process of the Church (ultimately the Pope). Until then, I don't think our Lord is pleased by this attack on the Archbishop. The Lord is his Judge.
I will try and pray for both Mel Gibson and the Cardinal, and all others as well. Prayer is always good.
Obviously, if Mr. Gibson is rejecting Christ's Church, that will not go well for him come judgement day. But then again, if a Cardinal and Archibishop is doing the same that will go even less well for him on judgement day.
Funny though that Mr. Gibson's work is bringing together Catholics and Protestants in unprecedented numbers, while the archbishop's version of ecumenism is having trouble holding even the Catholic faithful's attention. Certainly not sufficient evidence for any sweeping conclusion, but it sort of makes you go, "Hmmmm."
It is the purveyors and adherents of the Second Vatican Council who are doing the CHOOSING. Traditionalists know full well good and evil -- have for the last 2000 years, always will -- Nothing good became evil nor evil became good in the last 40 years.
Serious question. If he has privately rejected that communion, is he still in communion because his dissent isn't public? For example, if he knowingly and conciously defies the pope in a matter of faith, but makes it seem like a matter of not understanding him.
That's a concern I have about a lot of bishops, and Mahoney represents a sort typical of the worst offenders. They seem to be privately rejecting large elements of the Catholic faith - including obedience to the pope, but without publically stating so.
I have to wonder just how bad the cardinal would have to be before you'd say "Throw the bum out!".
no, I won't capitalize the title of someone who doesn't deserve it
A prelate loses jurisdiction when he teaches heresy. The most glaring example in Mahony's case is his letter on the Eucharist for which Mother Angelica took him to task.
I would like to hear from LA's Cardinal that he accepts ALL the teachings of the Church taught by the current Pope and the Church, including the point in canon law which forbids ordaining homosexuals. How many of Maphony's LA priests believe and observe EVERYTHING that the Catholic Church teaches??? Where has the Church ever taught that it can contradict the teachings of the Church from another period? Where was there ever a pro-sodomite modernist minimalist people's Church which reduced the Catholic faith to a mild form of socialism???
Thanks for reading our Lord's mind for us.
If you have no problem with heathen Hindu and Zen praying and watching half naked Hawaiian hula girls desecrate the altar that's your problem. As for me I want no part of it.
Upside is down is and rightside is up when those who worship as Catholics have for centuries have are condemned while every kind of false God is Glorified and welcomed.
It's too bad that some are so blind that they can't see. Sorry to inform you that you fit in that category.
Does Vatican II really teach that? If so, it seems to me to be a radical departure from what Christians, and especially Catholic Christians, have always believed.
The scriptures indicate that not everyone will be saved.
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In fairness, he may be too busy with legal paperwork and has not had time to keep up on Catholic theology.
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