Disturbing excerpts from interview with Cardinal Mahony (leftist in charge of LA Diocese)

RE Congress website ^ | 02-20-04 | online interview

[AAABEST]

Leonel M: Mel Gibson's upcoming movie "The Passion of the Christ" has had more than its share of headlines for the last year or more. But what is the relationship of Gibson's church near Malibu to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles? Is it part of a schismatic group?

Cardinal: I know nothing about the Church in Malibu. It is certainly not in communion with the Universal Catholic Church nor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

I have never met Mr. Gibson, and he does not participate in any parish of this Archdiocese. He, apparently, has chosen to live apart from the communion of the Catholic Church. I pray for him.

The Holy Spirit is promised to the Church, as well as the presence of Jesus: "Behold, I am with you all days until the end of the world." Those words were spoken to the Church, not to an individual in any century.

Moderator: We have several related questions about Mel Gibson; I'll try to summarize them. Many people have the impression that Mel Gibson is -- for lack of a better word -- a "regular" Catholic. Could you briefly explain the Catholic traditionalist movement?

Cardinal: Actually, there is no such thing as the "Catholic traditionalist, modernist, movement." Either one is in full communion with the Catholic Church, in unity with the Successor of Peter, or not. One cannot pick and choose which Pope to follow, especially dead ones, or which teaching to follow -- and then set aside the rest. Such people may be very nice people, but that doesn't make them "Catholic" in the true sense.

Even the media is beginning "to get it" about these groups. We must give full assent to the Creed and all that the Church teaches.

Moderator: So if Mel Gibson does not accept the Church's teachings as outlined in Vatican II documents, he's "not Catholic in the true sense"?

Cardinal: The Sixteen Documents of the Second Vatican Council constitute the accurate, authentic teaching of the Church. Those teachings are now contained in the Catechism of the Church. If one chooses to set aside any of those, then they choose to separate themselves from the unity of the Church. Keep in mind that the first temptation of Adam and Eve was precisely this: Satan told them, "you will be like gods, choosing good and evil." Wrong.

Moderator: Users also ask if you plan to see "The Passion of the Christ."

Cardinal: Someone has offered to give me a VHS of the movie, and I will view it.

Runecaster95: Is it acceptable for Catholics to participate in acts of devotion such as Zen meditation and Hindu chanting, providing the emphasis remains on Christ?

Cardinal: Any form of prayer and meditation that helps us deepen our life in Jesus Christ is a positive. We might call the same type of prayer "centering prayer," or "Christian mantra."

Jane M.: Who do you think goes to heaven? Do you think people of other religions will be there? Do people who haven't accepted Christ as their savior go to heaven when they die?

Cardinal: As the Second Vatican Council teaches us, it is the Church's belief that everyone goes to heaven "through the salvific merits of Jesus Christ." Therefore, if they belong to another faith community, we believe that it is still the merits of Jesus' Paschal Mystery that enables them to reach the Kingdom of God.

Keep in mind that each of us "chooses" our final destiny, and God continually calls to us to return home.

[narses]

LOL, you are cheap and cheesy "deacon". If homosexual acts or tendencies defined the man, then how does confession, penance and amendment figure into the human condition? Humans are NOT defined by their sexual activities "deacon". There are sinful sexual activities and there are non sinful.Your word games in defense of the homosexual redefinition of humanity reveal a very poorly developed Catechism. You truly need help. I pray you find it.

[narses]

How do you know EITHER of the "facts" you assume "deacon"?

[narses]

Could you find a licit, valid Mass in Los Angeles? I couldn't.

[sinkspur]

You truly need help. I pray you find it.

I do need help. Know anybody that can caulk a bathroom?

[Salvation]

**Someone has offered to give me a VHS of the movie, and I will view it.**

LOL!

[sinkspur]

LOL, you are cheap and cheesy "deacon".

Actually, I've lost a few pounds, and I don't work "cheap."

Why are you so nasty? I haven't posted to you in months.

[Salvation]

**Any form of prayer and meditation that helps us deepen our life in Jesus Christ is a positive. We might call the same type of prayer "centering prayer," or "Christian mantra."**

As far as I know, this statement is false. I will go ahead and read the entire thread, so you can ignore my comments for now.

[B Knotts]

To start with, there are a few indult Masses in the greater Los Angeles area. I would think those would be both valid and licit.

[Salvation]

**Hypocrite heal thyself!**

You can see the splinter in your neighbor's eye better, Cardinal Mahoney, if you take the log out of your own eye first.

[narses]

I used to think that. Indult Masses tend to be in the most liberal areas, the priests tend to hate the SSPX and the pressure to concelebrate and to mix the species is enormous. Once the liberal controls the Hosts, who knows? If that sounds paranoid, I'll ping you to my answer.

[narses]

Where am I "nasty"? You try and link sexual behavior to labels on people. That kidn of bigotry is "nasty" and lacks cahrity "deacon", as do your responses to me.

[sinkspur]

You try and link sexual behavior to labels on people.

Actually, heterosexuals and homosexuals are descriptions that are widely used, narses. Surely you know that.

That kidn of bigotry is "nasty" and lacks cahrity "deacon", as do your responses to me.

LOL!! You come out with both barrels blazing at me, then play the victim.

You're such a child, narses.

[saradippity]

I think that declaring that a celibate homosexual should not be ordained is a sticky wicket and I think it should be discussed but with greatest caution.

Since the Church started relying on all sorts of psychological testing the question of homosexual tendencies or preferences is apt to be subject to imperfect tests and biased interpretations.Furthermore,the dilemma this poses cannot be put back in the box.

You can argue this but the die has been cast. Imagine a test contrived to force an answer regards one's sexuality,most tests have these forced choices in a few areas.

What if one never thought about sex at all? Might this person be said to be fixated at a very young social/psychological age and rejectd.

How about if one never,ever considered or thought about homosexualty? Would this be interpreted as too immature for the priesthood,or would the person be considered to be hiding something or dishonest?

It seems to me that if the Church made a decision to not ordain celibate homosexuals it would invite real problems that in the end would deprive the priesthood of many innocents as well as many men that know that the Holy Spirit,prayer and fasting can overcome temptations.It also lose men who had very low sex drives. It also might eliminate men who had examined themselves and their lives and decided they had no interest in men yet the question might be structured in such a way that an honest answer would be "yes,I have considered homosexuality".

In most of these tests an answer that might be true might and honest might cause the testgiver to mark the candidate unacceptable due to an inability to deal with reality.This age of testing presents real problems and not only could we lose men who "might" have homosexual attractions to men but also heterosexuals who are eliminated based on the types of tests designed to probe sexuality.

The answer lies in "fidelity,fidelity,fidelity" and good orthodox Catholic priests and Bishops dedicated to teaching the Truth of the Faith.

[Salvation]

**The scriptures indicate that not everyone will be saved.**

Not everyone will accept the invitation to be saved. The Acts of the Apostles is awash with examples of preaching to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. All were invited to believe in Jesus Christ.

Some chose not to believe. But how do we know that on their deathbed they say a perfect Act of Contrition and goes straight to heaven. We cannot judge or make any statement about who will or will not be saved.

[sinkspur]

I agree with you here, sara, but you are likely to get lambasted.

I've asked the question and never gotten an answer: If one is a celibate homosexual, how would anybody know?

[Salvation]

At least it has a crucifix.

[Aliska]

But how do we know that on their deathbed they say a perfect Act of Contrition and goes straight to heaven.

We can't know that.

We cannot judge or make any statement about who will or will not be saved.

I don't presume to do that. All I said was that scripture indicates in several different places that there are some who will be lost. I couldn't in good conscience teach that all are saved, although I can hope that they will.

That brings up an ugly point. One of the biggest appeals of heaven is that we will be safe. There are some I would hope not to have to endure there, even if they can no longer do me bodily harm, unless they are totally transformed by grace (as I would hope to be) and rendered harmless for all eternity.

[dsc]

"If one is a celibate homosexual, how would anybody know?"

Well, then, me lad, on what basis do you assert the existence of celibate homosexuals?

[dsc]

"There are some I would hope not to have to endure there"

Not to worry. In the presence of God there will be nothing to fear or endure.

[Salvation]

And then we have this Cardinal:

Click Here Click Here Click Here

Monday, March 1, 2004 Cardinal Egan: Flock to 'The Passion' For those unfortunates who still haven't seen Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ," Cardinal Edward Egan of New York recommends you head to your nearest theater. "It's good that we see that movie because that movie tells us about the greatest prayer, the greatest sacrifice that was ever made," he told the congregation Sunday at St. Patrick's Cathedral. "The victim was Jesus Christ. The priest was Jesus Christ. He offered himself. "The film represented the sacrifice of Christ. It is here today in this beloved cathedral, the reality of this sacrifice." The New York Post reported today, "Egan said he hoped the congregation would walk out of St. Patrick's Cathedral with the same indelible impression of Christ's sacrifice as audiences experienced viewing 'The Passion.'" The cardinal said, "It is my hope that you leave here this morning and feel like you will never be the same."