Jews for Allah

Jewsweek ^ | 9-9-03

[SJackson]

	October 7, 2003

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Jews for Allah

It began as a joke, but it's now all too real. Adopting the same methodology of Jews for Jesus, a Web site is trying to tell you it's OK to be a Jew and follow Mohammed too.

by Alexandra Alter

October 3, 2003

It began as sort of a joke. Mohamed Ghounem, 32, a mild-mannered, laid-off telecom worker who lives with his wife and daughter in suburban Connecticut, says it was the headline "Christ Converts to Islam" in the satirical newspaper The Onion that gave him the idea for his Web site, JewsforAllah.com.

At first, he laughed. Then he thought, "Why not?" Ghounem, whose religious pedigree includes a year of study at al-Azhar, the world's foremost institute of Sunni Islamic learning, said he felt frustrated by Muslims' lack of evangelical activity.

		The curious conversion

		Jewsforallah.com

Although Muslims are the world's fastest growing religious group with more than a billion adherents, they haven't been active enough in the battle for Jewish souls, Ghounem says. "Muslims haven't been doing it," he says. "The Muslim attitude, unfortunately, was 'Jews will never convert'."

But why target Jews, fellow monotheists whose faith is regarded by many as Islam's closest relative, and who the Quran describes as "People of the Book?" According to Ghounem's reasoning, to help the Jews, who remain dangerously ignorant of Mohammed's prophecy, and, in the long run, to turn Israel into an Islamic state.

Ghounem's goals, while seen by many as laughably far-fetched, have outraged leaders of Jewish counter-missionary groups who have already been fighting off Christian evangelists for decades and are wary of new attempts to convert Jews by aggressive or deceptive means.

A fervent admirer of Moishe Rosen, the founder of the messianic group Jews for Jesus, Ghounem has studied the groups' tactics and adopted their rhetoric. Like Jews for Jesus, an organization renowned for claiming a Jew who believes in Jesus is a "completed Jew," Ghounem says converts can maintain their Jewish cultural identity and observe Jewish holidays. He stresses Judaism and Islam's shared lineage of prophets and their similar dietary laws. And, in language almost identical to his Christian mentors, he insists that a true Jew follows Mohammed.

"If you're a true Torah follower, you'll believe in Mohammed, because he's predicted in the Torah," Ghounem says.

He also argues Jews can liberate themselves from the stringent demands of their religion by embracing Islam. "The holy Quran is a mercy to Jews," Ghounem says. "A lot of the things in the Torah, they're not going to have to do anymore."

The suggestion that Judaism's proximity to Islam justifies conversion remains odious to many, however, who see Ghounem's efforts as an affront to both religions. "What this guy is doing is a disservice to both faith systems," says Scott Hillman, executive director of Jews for Judaism, a group that seeks to educate and protect Jews from evangelical groups. "If he's going to say, 'Judaism is fulfilled by Islam,' he's saying Islam is incomplete."

Others say Ghounem is simply acting on the centuries-old impetus for people of all faiths to seek converts. Ibrahim Hooper of the Council for American Islamic Relations says Ghounem's objectives are in keeping with the principles of Islam, which encourages evangelism. "Muslims are encouraged to present accurate and balanced information about their faith to people of all religions," Hooper says.

Before he set out to convert Jews, Ghounem underwent a conversion of his own, from being an American college student who was mostly ignorant about his faith, to a self-fashioned Muslim scholar combating the pervasive myths about Islam he encountered on the Internet.

Ghounem, who immigrated to the United States from Egypt at age six, says his knowledge of Islam was tenuous when he graduated from Western Connecticut University with a degree in engineering. After returning to Cairo for a year to study at al-Azhar, Ghounem began spending hours a night in chat-room debates with Messianic Jews and Christians.

Unlike Jews for Jesus, Ghounem has no sponsors and no missionaries; he relies solely on the Internet for outreach. His Web site, which has had more than one million visitors since it was launched three years ago, has attracted about 200 "converts" who use it as a support group. It also provides a forum for Ghounem to address misconceptions about Islam, like the idea that Islam was spread by the sword, that the Quran is anti-Semitic, and that Jews and Muslims worship different gods.

Leaders of Jewish counter-missionary organizations claim they aren't overly concerned by Ghounem's efforts, saying the content of his Web site is so outrageous that most people don't pay attention. "This is a freak show, a side show," says Rabbi Tovia Singer, the head of Outreach Judaism, a group that works to bring converts back into the fold.

Moreover, they say Ghounem's background as an Egyptian-born Sunni Muslim probably doesn't help his quest for Jewish converts. "Ghounem wasn't a Jew in the first place. The Jews for Jesus founder was at least a convert who was Jewish," Hillman says.

Ghounem may not be Jewish, but the man who he has described as his alter ego, Yousef al Khattab, was born a Jew. The 35-year-old Brooklyn native, once known as Joseph Cohen, now lives in the Arab quarter of Jerusalem, where for the past three years he has operated the Web site JewstoIslam.com. Though the two men have never met, they monitor each other's progress and frequently chat online.

While Ghounem's site may invite ridicule, al Khattab's has been attacked with viruses, threats, and complaints. With links such as "My Heroes the Taliban" and "Freaky Jewish Stuff," which details such familiar anti-Semitic myths as rabbis sucking babies' blood, it is no wonder the site has been taken down several times.

As a former Jew preaching conversion amid the treacherous political and religious fault lines dividing Israel, al Khattab is a far more controversial figure than Ghounem. His transformation from being an ultra-Orthodox American Jew to a fundamentalist Muslim gives him license to preach a higher level of invective against Jews than his Gentile counterparts, says Singer, who says al Khattab threatened his life by posting his home address on the Internet and inviting Muslims to "visit him at his home."

"Jews who've converted to Islam are disenfranchised and self-hating," Singer says. "When you listen to them, you will hear virulent hatred toward Judaism. Their message is pregnant with hate."

But al Khattab, who denies ever having contact with Singer, says it is Judaism, rather than Jews, that he opposes, arguing that Jews have been misled by their rabbis. "Muslims are all inclusive and the whole message of Islam is to invite Jews, Nazis, capitalists, all religions and beliefs," al Khattab said in an e-mail.

Al Khattab, who has converted 11 Jews, said he was attracted by Islam's clear message of obedience to God. He seems unfazed by charges that he supports the goals of terrorists (he has called on Muslims to take up arms against Jews who don't convert), or by other Muslims' initial suspicions that he was a member of Mossad, the Israeli secret service.

"When we become Muslims we do this for the sake of Allah all mighty alone," he says. "We don't care if Muslims or non-Muslims approve of our goals."

Ghounem, who shares al Khattab's goal of turning Israel into an Islamic state, has chosen a different approach, however, taking careful stock of opinions about his Web site and often adjusting its content to appease critics. He took down a link about Sufism, the mystical strain of Islam, after some of his more orthodox fans complained Sufism is a fringe movement alien to Islam.

Ghounem said he recognizes converts risk alienation from both faiths, but hopes his Web site might lead to dialogue between Muslims and Jews. Well, that and one other thing. "My goal is to surpass Jews for Jesus, which I consider 100 percent inevitable," he said enthusiastically.

[ChicagoHebrew]

As much as no one wants to admit it, theologically Judaism and Islam are much closer than Judaism and Christianity.

Both Judaism and Islam preach a pure Monotheism with 1 undivided god, unlike Christianity which preaches the Trinity.

Both Judaism and Islam are structured as religions of law and obedience to the law (I know, I've studied both legal systems)-- Christianity is structured as a religion of faith, with few regulations and ordinances.

Both Judaism and Islam are Semetic by nature, whereas Christianity owes a strong debt to Greek and Roman philosophical concepts.

Both Judaism and Islam are strongly anti-iconoclastic, whereas many branches of Christianity permit statues and paintings of divine beings

I could go on... that doesn't mean I endorse Islam, I don't. But it's critical to understand that Islam itself is not an evil religion, nor one that far from the Jewish and Christian tradition (whose holy texts are also filled with calls for violence and war). The problem with Islam is its corruption by the Wahhabi nuts in Saudi Arabia, which has unfortunately supplanted traditional mainstream Sunni Islam.

What Islam desperately needs is something akin to a post-Protestant reformation Peace of Westphalia, where ancient texts get interpretated in ways to foster harmony rather than conflict. For example, an Islamic reformer could easily endorse Israel as a Jewish State based on the Koranic command that G-d gave the land to the Jews, much as American Protestant reformers developed Christian Zionism that suplanted old Catholic "replacement theology." In similiar ways, an Islamic reformer could preach genuine peace between Muslims and Christians.

Btw, while we are on the subject of missionary groups, I admit to being a big fan of Christians for Moses-- an organization of ex-Christians who have become Benei Noach (followers of the Jewish faith who do not convert).

[Simcha7]

Todah Rabbah!

Thank You Greatly for the post and ping: Know Your Enemy Book List.

Will review it now and see how many of these Books I have read already.

We Must Be Prepared and Ready to face our ENEMIES...Make NO mistake about it, they are right here in our own back yard!

[Destro]

The first outsiders the Muslims killed (besides pagan Arabs) were Jews.

[rmlew]

Tell that to the Jews of Yathrib and Khaibar.

[Destro]

If you have not, read Bat Ye'or's books on Islam.

[joe032783]

tell me this.
imagine this:
you are an american soldier. you're fighting in iraq.
two local tribes agree to fight with you. so, you're
hanging out at the base, and suddenly a large enemy force
shows up and starts to attack your camp, with the intent
to kill every american inside.
.....at this point, the two local tribes begin to cause
trouble within your camp and betray you to the enemy.
...it's ok though, because the american group is eventually able to defeat the enemy force anyway.

tell me, at this point what would you do to the two tribes who betrayed you? what would you expect someone to do if this same type of situation happened to them sometime around 620 ad?

that's basically what happened to muhammad and the muslims of the time. they were being persecuted and tortured in mekka, for saying there was one god instead of many. so, they fled to medina, where they were invited to come by the local leaders. everyone there signed an agreement that they would protect eachother, regardless of eachother's religion. when the mekkans came, with the intent to kill all the muslims, two of the tribes in their alliance betrayed them. these two tribes were jewish tribes. the fact that they betrayed the muslims when all of their lives were at stake was the problem, not that they were jewish, and no educated muslim will tell you otherwise.
as a matter of fact, there were other jews at the time who did not break their alliance made with the muslims. they weren't harmed for being jewish. antisemetism is basically a western invention. you can see how far it was developed in the west by hitler.

[joe032783]

hey man,
i don't hate jews and christians. you can make stuff up about me, just because i'm a muslim, but that wouldn't be right would it? is that how you show your american spirit?

i am in no way responsible for what happened on 9/11. do i condem the attacks? yes.

what about jim jones? did he clam to be a christian of some kind? and kill a bunch of people?

what about david koresh? didn't he claim to be a christian of some kind?

just because some sick people did some sick things, and claimed to be christian, doesn't mean that christianty a religion is responsible. also, if you're a christian, i don't blame you for every horrible act done by christians

[joe032783]

hi mike, nice to meet you. thanks for the offer, but i've got my hands full dealing with the strictly religious side of my faith. i don't have time to really get into talking about the israel/palestinian conflict.

i have to say though, i'm no apologist.

islam is my religion, and muhammad, among others like jesus, abraham, and moses are my prophets. the qur'an is my holy book. i don't apologize for anything done by the prophets, or anything said in the qur'an.

however, like i said in my last message, i'm in no way responsible for stupid, unjust, and inhuman acts done by people like those on 9/11. i don't have to defend them, and i don't. i condemn their actions. they may claim to be muslim, but it's obvious to any educated muslim that they aren't doing what the qur'an and muhammad commanded

[tictoc]

Every single word in your post is a lie, including "is", "and", and "the".

Tell you what. Most people on FreeRepublic.com are not really well-versed in Islamic history, and I don't have the time to do a point-by-point takedown of your lies.

Here is my suggestion.

Ali Sina, the founder of Faithfreedom.org, has an open challenge to Muslims worldwide.

If they can debate him and convincingly argue that the Koran was given to Mohammed by G-d, and that Mohammad was not a murderous, perverted brigand, he will take down his web site and forever hold his peace.

Fame and possibly fortune await you if you can do it.

Go here http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=11 and give it your best shot!

[joe032783]

so what you're saying is i'm lying, but you don't have the time to do a point by point takedown?
ok. how about just one point?

am i lying in this message too?

[tictoc]

Two-for-one deal today :-)

that's basically what happened to muhammad and the muslims of the time. they were being persecuted and tortured in mekka, for saying there was one god instead of many.

Lie #1.

Muhammad made a pest of himself but no one tried to kill him, no one tortured him, no one even punched him in the face. Same for his few followers in Mecca.

as a matter of fact, there were other jews at the time who did not break their alliance made with the muslims. they weren't harmed for being jewish.

Lie #2.

Muhammad's modus operandi, later imitated by Hitler, was simple. Wait until a Jew looks at you funny, then kill the men, sell the women and children into slavery (keeping the prettiest one for yourself and raping her that same evening), and use the assets of the Jews to finance your military expansion. In keeping with Muhammad's will, any Jews still left alive in the hijaz (the Arab peninsula) were expelled right after his death. And ever since, the hijaz has been judenrein. So much for the vaunted Islamic tolerance.

I know you're going to come back now with a tiresome defense, and we could go on for a few more back-and-forths. But I am not best qualified to do this, nor do I have the time. If you are truly looking for a worthy opponent, then go toe-to-toe with the ex-Muslims on faithfreedom.org (if you can; the URL is blocked in many Islamic countries).

But be warned: some of those who tried before you are now happily free apostates from Islam.

[DefCon]

Koran 2:191
"Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them."
Koran 2:192
"But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
Koran 2:193
"And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."
---
English translation...
Koran 2:191 Kill all those who do not accept Islam where ever you may find them.
Koran 2:192 Unless they "repent" and accept Islam, then Allah will forgive them.
Koran 2:193 Otherwise fight all the unbelievers until they are all killed or accept faith in Allah.
- - -
That's about the gist of it, right?
Your prophet is a flase prophet
and your holy book is a work of fiction.
Me and my family will all die
before we accept your "so-called" religion.
And I refuse to ask for Allah's "forgiveness".

[joe032783]

you are basically making stuff up as you see fit. if anyone wants to learn a little about this stuff from historians here are some books to read.

Muhammad, by Karen Armstrong
The Koran, a very short introduction, by Michael Cook
Islam, a brief history, by Karen Armstrong

These are books by non-muslims who are just excellent scholars.

[Agitate]

Joe, can you tell me how the Khutbah(sermon) below translates into peaceful islam? This is from Muslim scolars and recommended for muslims. Just part of it here, from http://www.alminbar.com:

"Summary
1) Jews are a source of evil and enmity against them is part of our faith.
2) The Jews war against the Muslims is a religious one.
3) Nationalism has not and can never bring any benefit to the Muslims.
4) Our war against the Jews can only be conducted according to the principles of Islaam.
5) The reasons why Salaah Ad-Deen was able to defeat the crusaders.
6) The miserable predicament of contemporary Muslims and the role of the sick-hearted Muslims and hypocrites in calling for peace settlements.
7) The Jews never keep their covenants and our war against them is continuous.
8) The evil role of the Jews in Madeenah, their plots against Muslims and the stance of the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam towards them.

The Jews, who are the nation of pigs and monkeys, are nothing but a source of evil, corruption, tribulation and war. Hatred against the Muslims is inherited by every generation of Jews who in turn teach it to their children. Our enmity and hostility against them is based on our faith. The Jews have never and will never lower the banner of war against us Muslims; it is a war between truth and falsehood, belief and disbelief. It is a war between the truth of Islaam and the falsehood of Judaism. The Jews will never stop adding fuel to the fire of war, nor will they ever stop plotting against us. Whenever the fire of one battle is extinguished, they light another.
The reality of our war against the Jews is that it is a religious war which cannot be conducted except according to the principles of Islaam which are clearly defined. Allaah says that which translates as: “Fight those who do not believe in Allaah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allaah and His Messenger have made unlawful and do not adopt the religion of truth [i.e., Islaam] from those who were given the scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah (protection tax) willingly while they are humbled.” (At-Tawbah: 29).

Please don't condescend us by saying we are confused about Islam. Your holy book is full of scriptures that command ongoing war against all kaifrs, especially Jews. We all know the Palestinians will never stop killing Jews, state or no state, (and they certainly don't deserve a state).

The actions of Islamists, the state of their medieval, inhumane countries and the silence of the alleged "moderate" muslims speaks volumes about Islam.

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Jesus was a Jew and said salvation is from the Jews. Islam hates the Jews and wants to kill them all--something that will never happen while God is in control, which is always.

I hope Joe that you learn the truth and leave the trap of this falshood perpetrated by so-called mohammad.

Littlegreenfootballs
Faith and Freedom International

[Mr. Silverback]

Before founding Islam, Muhammad was a pagan, like most members of his tribe, and the economy of Mecca was to some extent dependant on pilgrims who came to worship the hundreds of gods enshrined there. He claimed to have been visited (and commissioned as a prophet) by the angel Gabriel.

[DannyTN]

"Judaism and Islam are much closer than Judaism and Christianity. "

In some ways I agree with you, but in most I don't.

"Judaism and Islam preach a pure Monotheism with 1 undivided god, unlike Christianity which preaches the Trinity. "

While Christianity teaches the Trinity it is but one God. The problem is that the very nature of God is poorly understood by all. The Trinity is actually spoken of in the Old Testament and at times is more apparent in the Old than in the New. The following link has several Old Testament scriptures showing God is One but at the same time is somehow has a plural nature. But this is by no means an exhaustive list. For Example when David said "The Lord said unto my Lord", who was David referring to? Thus it raises the question, if todays Jews reject the Trinity, are they listening to their own ancient Jewish prophets?

"Both Judaism and Islam are structured as religions of law and obedience to the law (I know, I've studied both legal systems)-- Christianity is structured as a religion of faith, with few regulations and ordinances."

Christianity has fewer ordinances by far, mostly because the ultimate sacrifice has occurred and an animal sacrifice system is no longer necessary. But the fact is that the Law saves no one, because nobody lives up to it. Even the Old Testament is clear, repeatedly claiming "No one is righteous". God doesn't judge on the Bell curve, He judges according to His own Perfect Holiness. There are two ways to Heaven, be Holy or be forgiven. And God's already passed judgement on our success at the first.

Nevertheless, Christianity embraces the Law, we hold up the law as good and we aspire to live the law. But we count on forgiveness for salvation, not our own efforts. The ordinances we dispense with are either those given specifically to the Jewish people as their specific covenant with the Lord or sacrifice related.

Which prophet was it that quoted God as saying I take no pleasure in animal sacrifices, a contrite and circumcised heart are the sacrifices I require. That is what Christianity strives for.

"Both Judaism and Islam are Semetic by nature, whereas Christianity owes a strong debt to Greek and Roman philosophical concepts. "

I would disagree with that. The Roman and the Greek religions were filled with multiple Gods who were no better than men. Christianity is based on the God of Israel and because we have listened to what the Prophets said in Isa 9:6 and Isa 53, I say Christianity is closer to Ancient Judiasm than current Judiasm is.

"Both Judaism and Islam are strongly anti-iconoclastic, whereas many branches of Christianity permit statues and paintings of divine beings "

I agree with that. But many non-Catholic Christians aren't really into statues and paintings. I think the Catholic practice re statues is a dangerous practice.

But I find it interesting that the one statue that God ordained was the one that he had Moses build. The statue of the serpent (symbol of sin) on the tree which the Hebrews had to look to when bitten by the serpents to to be healed. It's the perfect image of Jesus made sin for us and hung on the tree. We must look to him to be healed when bitten by sin. As strongly anti-iconoclastic as the Hebrew God is, this really ought to make you think. What was He trying to tell you?

Where Judaism and Islam are alike is in their rejection of the Son of God. While some Jews recognized Jesus and accepted him as the Messiah, others did not. Either because they didn't know the Jewish scriptures or they willfully chose not too.

Islam on the other hand claims to accept both the Old and New Testaments as scripture and then goes on to deny Christ, which is hypocritical at best. That they make Jesus into a liar who willfully deceived people is shameful. But it strikes me as silly that they paint that picture of Jesus and yet it is Jesus, not Mohammed, they are looking for to come back in the end times.

[DannyTN]

Oops left out the link... WhyBelieve

[DannyTN]

"He claimed to have been visited (and commissioned as a prophet) by the angel Gabriel."

Yes, but the account is suspect. Usually when we see an angel from God in the Old and New Testament their first reponse to man is "fear not". God's angels seek to comfort and reassure man before delivering their message.

The spirit that seized Mohammed was anything but kind. Mohammed's wife thought he was possessed by an evil spirit. I think he should have listened to her.

[DannyTN]

"He claimed to have been visited (and commissioned as a prophet) by the angel Gabriel."

Yes, but the account is suspect. Usually when we see an angel from God in the Old and New Testament their first reponse to man is "fear not". God's angels seek to comfort and reassure man before delivering their message.

The spirit that seized Mohammed was anything but kind. Mohammed thought he was possessed by an evil spirit. But it was his wife that convinced him that it was an angel. I think this is one time, he shouldn't have listened to her.

[DannyTN]

Post 79 is correct, 78 is wrong. It was Mohammed who thought he was possessed by an evil spirit not his wife.