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To: cookcounty
As much as no one wants to admit it, theologically Judaism and Islam are much closer than Judaism and Christianity.

Both Judaism and Islam preach a pure Monotheism with 1 undivided god, unlike Christianity which preaches the Trinity.

Both Judaism and Islam are structured as religions of law and obedience to the law (I know, I've studied both legal systems)-- Christianity is structured as a religion of faith, with few regulations and ordinances.

Both Judaism and Islam are Semetic by nature, whereas Christianity owes a strong debt to Greek and Roman philosophical concepts.

Both Judaism and Islam are strongly anti-iconoclastic, whereas many branches of Christianity permit statues and paintings of divine beings

I could go on... that doesn't mean I endorse Islam, I don't. But it's critical to understand that Islam itself is not an evil religion, nor one that far from the Jewish and Christian tradition (whose holy texts are also filled with calls for violence and war). The problem with Islam is its corruption by the Wahhabi nuts in Saudi Arabia, which has unfortunately supplanted traditional mainstream Sunni Islam.

What Islam desperately needs is something akin to a post-Protestant reformation Peace of Westphalia, where ancient texts get interpretated in ways to foster harmony rather than conflict. For example, an Islamic reformer could easily endorse Israel as a Jewish State based on the Koranic command that G-d gave the land to the Jews, much as American Protestant reformers developed Christian Zionism that suplanted old Catholic "replacement theology." In similiar ways, an Islamic reformer could preach genuine peace between Muslims and Christians.

Btw, while we are on the subject of missionary groups, I admit to being a big fan of Christians for Moses-- an organization of ex-Christians who have become Benei Noach (followers of the Jewish faith who do not convert).

61 posted on 10/07/2003 9:47:04 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew
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To: ChicagoHebrew
"Judaism and Islam are much closer than Judaism and Christianity. "

In some ways I agree with you, but in most I don't.

"Judaism and Islam preach a pure Monotheism with 1 undivided god, unlike Christianity which preaches the Trinity. "

While Christianity teaches the Trinity it is but one God. The problem is that the very nature of God is poorly understood by all. The Trinity is actually spoken of in the Old Testament and at times is more apparent in the Old than in the New. The following link has several Old Testament scriptures showing God is One but at the same time is somehow has a plural nature. But this is by no means an exhaustive list. For Example when David said "The Lord said unto my Lord", who was David referring to? Thus it raises the question, if todays Jews reject the Trinity, are they listening to their own ancient Jewish prophets?

"Both Judaism and Islam are structured as religions of law and obedience to the law (I know, I've studied both legal systems)-- Christianity is structured as a religion of faith, with few regulations and ordinances."

Christianity has fewer ordinances by far, mostly because the ultimate sacrifice has occurred and an animal sacrifice system is no longer necessary. But the fact is that the Law saves no one, because nobody lives up to it. Even the Old Testament is clear, repeatedly claiming "No one is righteous". God doesn't judge on the Bell curve, He judges according to His own Perfect Holiness. There are two ways to Heaven, be Holy or be forgiven. And God's already passed judgement on our success at the first.

Nevertheless, Christianity embraces the Law, we hold up the law as good and we aspire to live the law. But we count on forgiveness for salvation, not our own efforts. The ordinances we dispense with are either those given specifically to the Jewish people as their specific covenant with the Lord or sacrifice related.

Which prophet was it that quoted God as saying I take no pleasure in animal sacrifices, a contrite and circumcised heart are the sacrifices I require. That is what Christianity strives for.

"Both Judaism and Islam are Semetic by nature, whereas Christianity owes a strong debt to Greek and Roman philosophical concepts. "

I would disagree with that. The Roman and the Greek religions were filled with multiple Gods who were no better than men. Christianity is based on the God of Israel and because we have listened to what the Prophets said in Isa 9:6 and Isa 53, I say Christianity is closer to Ancient Judiasm than current Judiasm is.

"Both Judaism and Islam are strongly anti-iconoclastic, whereas many branches of Christianity permit statues and paintings of divine beings "

I agree with that. But many non-Catholic Christians aren't really into statues and paintings. I think the Catholic practice re statues is a dangerous practice.

But I find it interesting that the one statue that God ordained was the one that he had Moses build. The statue of the serpent (symbol of sin) on the tree which the Hebrews had to look to when bitten by the serpents to to be healed. It's the perfect image of Jesus made sin for us and hung on the tree. We must look to him to be healed when bitten by sin. As strongly anti-iconoclastic as the Hebrew God is, this really ought to make you think. What was He trying to tell you?

Where Judaism and Islam are alike is in their rejection of the Son of God. While some Jews recognized Jesus and accepted him as the Messiah, others did not. Either because they didn't know the Jewish scriptures or they willfully chose not too.

Islam on the other hand claims to accept both the Old and New Testaments as scripture and then goes on to deny Christ, which is hypocritical at best. That they make Jesus into a liar who willfully deceived people is shameful. But it strikes me as silly that they paint that picture of Jesus and yet it is Jesus, not Mohammed, they are looking for to come back in the end times.

76 posted on 10/08/2003 7:01:43 AM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew
Oops left out the link... WhyBelieve
77 posted on 10/08/2003 7:09:34 AM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew
"What Islam desperately needs is something akin to a post-Protestant reformation Peace of Westphalia, where ancient texts get interpretated in ways to foster harmony rather than conflict. For example, an Islamic reformer could easily endorse Israel as a Jewish State based on the Koranic command that G-d gave the land to the Jews, much as American Protestant reformers developed Christian Zionism that suplanted old Catholic "replacement theology." In similiar ways, an Islamic reformer could preach genuine peace between Muslims and Christians. "

There is some sort of imam in Italy that embraces the idea (from the Koran or Hadith, I forgot which, ) , that the Palestinian area is "the Land of the Jews." If you google around I think you'll find it. He has an Italian last name, appears to be a convert to Islam.

I agree that the Jews and the Christians have the advantage of theologies that vacate any necessity of applying violent solutions to current situations. It would be great if Islam could get through to this position as well.

There certainly are some areas is which Judaism in its current state is closer to Islam, but even in some of these aspects you mentioned, I think its possible to overdraw those lines.

No christian (well maybe a novice) would use a word like "divided" to describe their concept of God. It's a value judgement from the outside. Yes, I know it's at least a step away from from pure reason in normal human categories.

And large numbers of Christians are as abhorrent of images, particularly in worship. In the influences of my background ( Baptist-Mennonite-Dutch Reformed ), iconoclasm has been deeply held, and is still highly influential.

83 posted on 10/08/2003 7:48:33 AM PDT by cookcounty
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To: ChicagoHebrew
Thanks for your #61. Well thought out and well stated. I have noticed those similarities as well.
180 posted on 10/10/2003 3:26:59 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (Proverbs 6:23 -- For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; . . . the way of life)
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