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Neandertals Not Our Ancestors, DNA Study Suggests (Whewww!!!)
National Geographic News ^ | 5/14/03 | Hillary Mayell

Posted on 05/14/2003 10:49:29 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

One more piece of evidence has been added to the debate on whether there was any interbreeding between Neandertals and early modern humans.

Around 50,000 years ago, small groups of anatomically modern humans migrated out of Africa and began to colonize the rest of the world. Known as Cro-Magnons for the site in France where the earliest remains were found, these early humans co-existed with the Neandertals then living in Europe until the Neandertals became extinct roughly 30,000 years ago. What happened and why—did the two groups war, did they mate, did they even meet?—has been an enduring puzzle in the study of human origins.

A team of geneticists from Italy and Spain compared the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of two Cro-Magnons that were 23,000 and 25,000 years old respectively, four Neandertal specimens, 29,000 to 42,000 years old, and a large database of modern human mtDNA to shed some light on the issue.

The authors found that the Cro-Magnon mtDNA fit well within the spectrum of genetic variation exhibited by modern Europeans, but differed sharply from that of the Neandertals. They conclude that it is unlikely that Neandertals contributed to the current European gene pool.

"Our results add to the evidence collected previously in different fields, making the hypothesis of a 'Neandertal heritage' very unlikely," said Giorgio Bertorelle, a geneticist at University di Ferrara in Italy, and a co-author of the study.

The results were published in the May 12-16 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Understanding Early Human Origins

The research was designed to address a question raised by two different theories on human evolution. The replacement model holds that a wave of anatomically modern humans left Africa around 50,000 years ago, and eventually replaced the existing Neandertal populations.

Advocates of the multi-regional theory argue that there was gene flow between the two populations and that modern humans have dual ancestry: archaic and modern.

"These results match with views, including mine, that the Neandertals were largely or totally replaced rather than absorbed into the Cro-Magnon gene pool, but the samples are small and it is possible that other samples or other genes might tell a different story," said Chris Stringer, director of the Human Origins program at the Natural History Museum in London.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed solely through the mother.

"We can say pretty absolutely that Neandertals didn't contribute mitochondrial DNA to modern humans, but that's just one locus and doesn't carry very strong implications for the rest of the genome," said Henry Harpending, an anthropologist at the University of Utah. "I'm not saying they did interbreed, it's just that mtDNA is a restricted data set."

Typically, if there is interbreeding between two groups of unequal status, it often occurs between the males of the more developed culture and the females of the less developed culture.

"An article was recently published speculating that the selective advantage that modern humans had was reproductive; that the development of a broader pelvis and wider birth canal to accommodate bigger skulls and larger brains made the difference," said Harpending. "If that were the case, it would be easy to imagine that Neandertal women breeding with anatomically modern men would have had a real hard time, and mtDNA might not show up in the modern human genome."

Multi-regional proponents say the lack of similar mtDNA between Neandertals and Cro-Magnons doesn't answer the question of interbreeding.

"What multi-regionalists have been saying all along is that it's about mixture and evolution; that there was gene flow and that Neandertals are one of the ancestors of modern humans," said Milford Wolpoff, a paleontologist at the University of Michigan. "What these data show is that people who lived 20,000 years ago look [genetically] more like people today than the people who lived 45,000 years ago."

"It seems to me that's proving the obvious. It's not telling us that much about the progress in evolution," he said. "You would expect Neandertals to look more and more like modern humans as time goes on."

Looking to the Future

The analysis of ancient nuclear DNA is not technically feasible at the moment, and probably won't be anytime in the near future, the researchers say. But advances in the field of genetics and the mapping of the human genome has provided a flood of information that may someday yield the answers.

"What we need now is to find our way through the databases," said Harpending. "None of the models we have now can explain all of the evidence."



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: ancestors; archaeology; crevolist; dnastudy; genetics; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; humanorigins; multiregionalism; neandertal; neanderthals; suggests
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To: martianagent
I wrote:
One can explain the separate adn competing hominid species of H. Sapien Neanderthalis and H. Sapien Sapien(Cro-Magnon/Modern Humans) quite easily. They each spereately evolved from H. Erectus

Really? On a scale of one to ten with an ape being one and a human ten, the neanderthal would be about a nine, while home erectus would be about a six or a seven. If we can't be descended from neanderthals because they're too apelike, how are we descended from homo erectus which is even more apelike? Or did you think home erectus was just some gay guy with a hard on???

Please work on your reading comprehension before wowing me with sophistry.
I never said that we could not have been descended from H. Neanderthalis because it was too apelike. Rather the genetic data indicates otherwise. Parallel evolution occurs all the time.

21 posted on 05/20/2003 7:50:17 PM PDT by rmlew ("Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.")
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To: NormsRevenge
"None of the models we have now can explain all of the evidence."

And what about all the contrary evidence that the academic scientists generally do not deign to take notice of?

22 posted on 05/20/2003 8:24:19 PM PDT by AmericanVictory
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To: martianagent
H. Erectus was extinct before modern humans show up. I think you are right. If it is not Neadertal, there is nothing formodern humans to evolve from.
23 posted on 05/20/2003 8:51:49 PM PDT by Ahban
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To: NormsRevenge
Typically, if there is interbreeding between two groups of unequal status, it often occurs between the males of the more developed culture and the females of the less developed culture.

As my wife told me, "girls always try to marry Up".

24 posted on 05/20/2003 8:58:58 PM PDT by Boiler Plate
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To: NormsRevenge
Neandertals Not Our Ancestors

I guess these people haven't seen the Baldwin brothers.

25 posted on 05/20/2003 9:21:09 PM PDT by lewislynn
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To: AmericaUnited
Don't worry humanists and atheists. You can still claim to have been accidentally formed from a blob of primoral mud. Meanwhile, us God-fearing folk will continue celebrating that we were "fearfully and wonderfully" made by a Creator.

What a bizarre philosophy. You say that creation was "wonderful" but you mock people whose sense of wonder leads them to find out more. You are satisfied that you know as much as should be known so we should not look into origins from our feeble human ability to understand it? Should we have been satisfied with prayer and never studied medicine? Blessed are the curious. They cannot know all that God knows, but they will try to find out what they can!

26 posted on 05/20/2003 9:26:49 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: NormsRevenge
All they've demonstrated was that Neanderthal women didn't pass on their genes. Neaderthal menn OTIH:

The First Man Was a Woman

I can't prove it, but I believe the first man was a woman.

Modern science has used mitochondrial DNA to track human origins back to a single female. This is the so-called Eve hypothesis.

I believe that this was the first fully human Homo Sapiens. A girl was born with a genetic 'defect' in her mitochondria. The mitochondria control the enzyme activity in the cell. This change affected her metabolism at a deep cellular level.

The first human had an altered metabolism that manifested itself in a suite of gross differences:

She lacked vibrissae, the sensory whiskers common to all other mammals.
She had full lips, not the thin line at the rim of the mouth typical of other species.
She was weak, compared to others of her kind.
Her features retained a more child-like appearance as she grew up.
But, the two most critical differences were a lack of body hair, and a monthly estrus cycle.

Why are the last two most critical?

The lack of body hair provided an interesting advantage. To understand this, let's look at cats. There is a breed of hairless cat. Instead of fur, they have a velvety skin. Their owners often comment on how affectionate their cats are. Affectionate? Not really, these cats are just COLD, they snuggle to keep warm!

Back to our first human, she sure is cuddly. She is much more desirable than her standoffish hairy sisters.

Rather than the annual fertility cycle, she is 'in heat' all of the time. Cuddly and friendly too!

Lacking muscle strength, she needed to be protected. The beginnings of love as we now understand it.

That she needed protection is deeply ingrained it the human psyche. In propaganda there are surprisingly few common themes. The enemy is depicted as snakes, spiders, octopus, and, ... and ... hairy ape-men seizing the furless women. The massive muscular King Kong is interested in the petite Fay Rae. Did you ever wonder why this resonated with the audience?

Simple. The first man was a woman...

27 posted on 05/20/2003 9:33:26 PM PDT by null and void
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To: HairOfTheDog
You say that creation was "wonderful" but you mock people whose sense of wonder leads them to find out more.

NO, that's not what I'm mocking.

You are satisfied that you know as much as should be known

And once again... NO, that's not what I believe or posted.

Do you always go off into little self-made up rants? Maybe you need another drink, HairOfTheDog, to steady the nerves.

28 posted on 05/21/2003 3:33:19 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Aric2000; balrog666; BMCDA; Condorman; ContentiousObjector; *crevo_list; donh; general_re; Godel; ..
A Low-brow Ping...
29 posted on 05/21/2003 3:36:39 AM PDT by Junior (Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes.)
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To: lewislynn
>Neandertals Not Our Ancestors

>>I guess these people haven't seen the Baldwin brothers.

Not to mention:


30 posted on 05/21/2003 3:37:53 AM PDT by FreedomPoster
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To: Junior
A Low-brow Ping...

Must you always be so ... primitive?

31 posted on 05/21/2003 4:03:47 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Must be the animal in me...
32 posted on 05/21/2003 4:25:23 AM PDT by Junior (Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes.)
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To: NormsRevenge
See here. Particularly note Skuhl 5 Cranium From Skuhl, Israel.
33 posted on 05/21/2003 4:31:23 AM PDT by Celantro
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To: null and void
...The lack of body hair provided an interesting advantage....

The lack of a fur coat is a disadvantage for any sort of life on land, as is the subcutaneous fat which humans have; they are adaptations for life in water. Get a copy of one of Elaine Morgan's books and read the real version.

34 posted on 05/21/2003 8:16:04 AM PDT by martianagent
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To: martianagent
Even a water ape needs to get out of the water (and warm up) once in a while...
35 posted on 05/21/2003 8:59:37 AM PDT by null and void
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To: PatrickHenry; Junior
Paging Darwin Central, ketchup spill in Aisle 3.
36 posted on 05/21/2003 9:05:10 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: null and void
Apparently, if you're fat enough, you don't need fur. Other adaptations for swimming and wading are having our legs be the main limbs, and being able to control our breathing. Lack of control over breathing is the main reason chimps cannot be taught to speak English.
37 posted on 05/21/2003 9:05:16 AM PDT by martianagent
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To: FreedomPoster
Albright has to be the ugliest woman ever invented. I'd turn gay before I'd have anything to do with her.
38 posted on 05/21/2003 9:06:40 AM PDT by martianagent
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To: NormsRevenge
"An article was recently published speculating that the selective advantage that modern humans had was reproductive; that the development of a broader pelvis and wider birth canal to accommodate bigger skulls and larger brains made the difference," said Harpending. "If that were the case, it would be easy to imagine that Neandertal women breeding with anatomically modern men would have had a real hard time, and mtDNA might not show up in the modern human genome."

Excuse me (waving hand above my head), I thought that Neanderthals had, on average, a much larger cranium than C-M and moderns by several hundred cc's. If this is the case 'ol Ms N. would have had an easier time.
39 posted on 05/21/2003 9:12:57 AM PDT by Godzilla (Why be politically correct when you could be right.)
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To: martianagent
My underlying premise is that the hairless ape women are more desireable than their hairy sisters is still valid, regardless of the reason fo being less hairly and more gracile. (Water apes can get away with weaker bones and muscles)...
40 posted on 05/21/2003 9:14:59 AM PDT by null and void
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