Genes show Welsh are the true Britons

Telegraph.co.uk ^ | 01/07/2002 | Unknown

[Korth]

Scientists say they have discovered big genetic differences between the English and Welsh, reinforcing the idea that the "true" Britons were pushed to the fringes by a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion.

Researchers at University College London found the genes of a sample of English men were almost identical to those of people in an area of the Netherlands where the Anglo-Saxons are thought to have originated.

But there were clear differences between the genetic make-up of English and Welsh subjects studied.

The researchers concluded that the most likely explanation for this was a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion, which wiped out most of the indigenous population in England but did not reach Wales.

The team studied the Y-chromosome, which is usually inherited unchanged from father to son, and looked for certain genetic markers.

It chose seven market towns mentioned in the Domesday Book of 1086 and studied the genes of 313 male volunteers whose paternal grandfather had also lived in the area.

They then compared them with samples from Friesland, now a northern province of the Netherlands.

The English and Frisians studied had almost identical genetic make-up but the English and Welsh were very different. It appeared that a "genetic barrier" existed along Offa's Dyke, a 150-mile long early medieval border between England and Wales.

Dr Mark Thomas, of the Centre for Genetic Anthropology at UCL, said: "It appears that England is made up of an ethnic cleansing event from people coming across from the Continent after the Romans left."

Archaeologists after the Second World War rejected the traditionally-held view that an Anglo-Saxon invasion pushed the indigenous Celtic Britons to the fringes of Britain.

Instead, they said the arrival of Anglo-Saxon culture could have come from trade or a small ruling elite. But the latest research "using genetics as a history book" supports the original view.

[KarlInOhio]

ARTHUR: How do you do, good lady. I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Who's castle is that?

WOMAN: King of the who?

ARTHUR: The Britons.

WOMAN: Who are the Britons?

ARTHUR: Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.

[Seti 1]

Nice post.

[society-by-contract]

Supreme executive authorith comes from a mandate from the masses, not som farcical aquatic ceremony...

I just bought the Grail DVD over the weekend

This scene also is the first time (although I did not know it at the time) I heard the prefix anarcho--as in anarcho-syndaclist & anarcho-capitalist. Bright fellas.

[TexasRepublic]

WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.

DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. ..... A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

WOMAN: Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.

DENNIS: That's what it's all about if only people would--

ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?

WOMAN: No one lives there.

ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?

WOMAN: We don't have a lord.

ARTHUR: What?

DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

ARTHUR: Yes.

DENNIS: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting.

ARTHUR: Yes, I see.

DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--

ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!

WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?

ARTHUR: I am your king!

WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.

ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.

WOMAN: Well, 'ow did you become king then?

ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake, [angels sing] her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [singing stops] That is why I am your king!

DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

ARTHUR: Shut up!

DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just because some moistened bink had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!

ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!

DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

ARTHUR: Shut up!

DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! --- HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!

ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!

DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you here that, did you hear that, eh?.... That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me, you saw it didn't you?

[reflecting]

LOL

[MaggieMay]

I own two DVD's one of them is "The Quest for the Holy Grail".

[an amused spectator]

heads-up

[Rytwyng]

a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion, which wiped out most of the indigenous population in England but did not reach Wales....The team studied the Y-chromosome, which is usually inherited unchanged from father to son

Ah, but the Y DNA only reveals the MALE lineages. The mitchondrial DNA reveals the females (it takes 2 to tango). And the mtDNA of the English is a lot more "native", having changed relatively little since the Neolithic. This suggests that the English are primarily descended from Anglo-Saxon fathers, and Celtic mothers. In simpler terms - a lot of Anglo-Saxon MEN invaded, and took conquered Celtic women as wives or concubines.

The same thing happened in Mexico when the Spanish arrived -- a large majority of the Y chromosomes are "Iberian" yet most of the mtDNA is American Indian. Something similar happened in Ireland long before recorded history, as the Irish have mainly Iberian Y chromosomes (almost identical to Basques) yet northern European mtDNA, indicating that Basque men must have overrun Ireland in the same way that the Anglo-Saxons overran England.

How on earth are we going to sort out THIS "reparations" mess?

[Petar Mrkonjic]

Scientists say they have discovered big genetic differences between the English and Welsh, reinforcing the idea that the "true" Britons were pushed to the fringes by a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion.

Is that why English is a Germanic language?

[Nat Turner]

the english language is a mish mash of OLD GERMANIC and many OLD NORSE VERBS-- with a heavy overlay of french and latin

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

LOL!

Sharing both Welsh and English ancestry, I love it!

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Have they found any Roman DNA?

[blam]

Thanks for the ping. Check this out:

English & Welsh Are Races Apart

[Petar Mrkonjic]

the english language is a mish mash of OLD GERMANIC and many OLD NORSE VERBS-- with a heavy overlay of french and latin

Oh,I guess that is why English is classified as a GERMANIC language. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[SunkenCiv]

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[xcamel]

[bert]

Then there is the L gene. It makes people speak in very very long words

[xcamel]

Ditto.. just another ‘mixed urchin’ as they say...

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Well, that's a blast from the past.
But, no, there's no chance of surrender at this point.