Posted on 06/08/2005 4:41:38 AM PDT by echoBoomer
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - An Israeli researcher has challenged the popular belief that Jesus died of blood loss on the cross, saying he probably succumbed to a sometimes fatal disorder now associated with long-haul air travel.
Professor Benjamin Brenner wrote in The Journal of Thrombosis and Haemostasis that Jesus's death, traditionally believed to have occurred 3-6 hours after crucifixion began, was probably caused by a blood clot that reached his lungs.
Such pulmonary embolisms, leading to sudden death, can stem from immobilisation, multiple trauma and dehydration, said Brenner, a researcher at Rambam Medical Center in Haifa.
"This fits well with Jesus's condition and actually was in all likelihood the major cause of death by crucifixion," he wrote in the article, based on religious and medical texts.
A 1986 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association mentioned the possibility that Jesus suffered a blood clot but concluded that he died of blood loss.
But Brenner said research into blood coagulation had made significant strides over the past two decades.
He said recent medical research has linked immobility among passengers on lengthy air flights to deep vein thrombosis, popularly known as "economy-class syndrome" in which potentially fatal blood clots can develop, usually in the lower legs.
Brenner noted that before crucifixion, Jesus underwent scourging, but the researcher concluded that "the amount of blood loss by itself" would not have killed him.
He said that Jesus, as a Jew from what is now northern Israel, may have been particular at risk to a fatal blood clot.
Thrombophilia, a rare condition in which blood has an increased tendency to clot, is common to natives of the Galilee, the researcher wrote.
© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
***Read the thread you'll see***
Why should I read >180 posts? Why not just tell me who "they" are?
Isaiah 46:9-11:
9: Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10: Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Eph 1:11:
11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Job 42:2:
"I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted."
Since God's will can't be thwarted, either the traditional Protestant interpretation of this text is correct or the Arminian one is, making Scripture a liar in Job 42:2 since not all are saved.
I choose to believe the former. We are to pray for "all men" in all sorts of situations...powerful and the lowly...and God desires the salvation of "all men," all kinds of men, the powerful and the lowly.
It doesn't mean he wants everybody in the entire world saved.
If he did, he would be violating his very nature by failing to do what he desired, which as you can see from the Scriptures above, when God wills something, it can't fail.
Does that mean that he's Predestined?
If God's will can't be thwarted, on what basis are some sent to hell?
SD
How did this thread go from whether or not Jesus had a blood clot to whether or not the Holy Spirit was present in Charles Manson?
Does that mean that he's Predestined?
Or at least he thinks he is.!!
I meant to post to you and tell
you that "you do good" on this thread. :>)
It was predestined to be so. There could be no other way.
Well, it would. Because if you admit that the Spirit only indwells believers, you would have to admit that 1 Corinthians 2:13-14 supports the idea that the Spirit must move in us before we can decide to come to Christ (which you actually admitted a bit ago, but with the flawed idea that it comes to all people and so we have a choice apart from anything in God's will).
Well, we don't. The natural man without the spirit can't know the things of God. Only the person with the Spirit can, and we only get that once we are a believer. Therefore, God must be a "first mover" in the area of salvation. It doesn't mean we are robots who are forced to come. We still want to come to Christ, but only because the Holy Spirit has worked in us, which did not happen to the natural man who stays in his dead and fallen state.
You and Calvin have fashioned a god who does not want all men to be saved. That's so sad.
You are beginning to sound like an old broken 45!!!
LOL!!! BTW, lest we all forget, John Calvin was another "gift" the French bestowed on the world.
Hey, I am a human being. I would prefer he would like all saved.
But, if God did want that, Christ's death was an utter failure because most of the world still hates him.
And, God doesn't fail.
What a dark little vision of the world. It's sad, really.
He is certainly not bound by the force of your limited logic....that would truly be a failure.
The truth needs repeating.
I would not mind saying something else if anyone actually would propose a solution to the issue of Scripture saying God's will never fails yet people believe it is his will that all be saved, and yet today most people aren't Christians.
Well, how can God not be a failure if that is the case?
A little off topic, but as long as we're quoting Martin Luther, I think this is the best thing he ever wrote:
"Who, but the devil, hath granted such a license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposeth upon us by these fanatical men .... Not one of the Fathers, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present. Surely it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men not be deceived. Certainly in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous."
Martin Luther, tom. vii. Edit. Wittemb. p. 391
He got one thing right!
It's not God's failure. It is the failure of individual men.
Job 42:2:
"I know that you can do all things; NO PLAN of yours can be thwarted."
And there you have it in a nutshell. His vision of God is one in which the God of the Universe created us like a fifth grade science project. Hmmm, this group is supposed to turn bad. This group is good. Now throw in some evil, mix it up, throw in a huge Solution, but be sure it doesn't have any effect on the bad group ('cause then my science project's hypothesis wouldn't work)...
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