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To: OB1kNOb

Isaiah 46:9-11:

9: Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10: Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Eph 1:11:

11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Job 42:2:

"I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted."

Since God's will can't be thwarted, either the traditional Protestant interpretation of this text is correct or the Arminian one is, making Scripture a liar in Job 42:2 since not all are saved.

I choose to believe the former. We are to pray for "all men" in all sorts of situations...powerful and the lowly...and God desires the salvation of "all men," all kinds of men, the powerful and the lowly.

It doesn't mean he wants everybody in the entire world saved.

If he did, he would be violating his very nature by failing to do what he desired, which as you can see from the Scriptures above, when God wills something, it can't fail.


182 posted on 06/08/2005 10:59:37 AM PDT by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=rwfromkansas)
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To: rwfromkansas
Since God's will can't be thwarted

If God's will can't be thwarted, on what basis are some sent to hell?

SD

185 posted on 06/08/2005 11:04:33 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: rwfromkansas
It doesn't mean he wants everybody in the entire world saved.

You and Calvin have fashioned a god who does not want all men to be saved. That's so sad.

190 posted on 06/08/2005 11:08:01 AM PDT by Petronski (How do you solve a problem like Petronski?)
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To: rwfromkansas
If the word "predestinate" means in the Bible as you've expressed, i.e. that GOD has preselected whom individually HE will save and whom individually HE won't, then it's game, set, and match. The party's over, if you are not one of the predestinated chosen saved God's Private Club member.

Also, for those that were chosen, there's no need to heed Jesus' commission to his church to go and make disciples, baptize them, and teach them. Either you're in or your out, period. End of discussion. End of story. Let's all go do as we please, because in the end, nothing matters, at least regarding your salvation.

However, the Scriptures teach that both God’s sovereignty and man’s free will are components of this ultimately important decision. The Bible (taken in its entirety) clearly emphasizes the universal fact of sin and guilt on man’s part.

“As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one. . . . that all the world may become guilty before God” (Romans 3:10, 19).

It also stresses that the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ was completely adequate to atone for the sin and guilt of all men everywhere.

“He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world”(1 John 2:2).

“. . . that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man” (Hebrews 2:9).

God, in His Word, offers salvation freely to anyone who will simply believe and receive it as an unmerited gift (grace).

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17).

Each person is held responsible for the consequences of making a wrong decision.

“He that believeth not the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).

“The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8).

It is clear, to most, that every person, without exception, can be saved if he wants to be, by coming in simple faith to accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior, recognizing Jesus as the ONLY way he will be saved and reconciled unto GOD the Father.

However, for those who are not believing Christians, on the other hand, the issue remains one of human responsibility—either to live a life of absolute holiness and sinless perfection from birth to death (as did Jesus Christ), or else to come in repentant faith to that One who died for mankind’s sin and was raised for mankind's justification.

...whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:15).

"For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

Again, taking the message of the Bible, as a whole, predestination/preselection/ predetermination of those individuals who are saved and those who aren't cannot stand on it's own merits. We have ALL been predestinated by GOD for salvation, but through our own free will, only some of us will repent and accept that gift of grace so freely offered to ALL through Jesus' sacrifice accepted by the Father in leiu of our own worthless deeds.

243 posted on 06/08/2005 12:28:13 PM PDT by OB1kNOb (Excrementum Occurum)
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