Attempt to expel US Anglicans at summit

Daily Telegraph ^ | 29 August 2003 | By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent

[ahadams2]

Attempt to expel US Anglicans at summit By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent (Filed: 29/08/2003)

Conservative archbishops are increasingly confident that they can force the expulsion of the American Episcopal Church from the Anglican Communion over its liberal line on homosexuality.

In fresh evidence that the battle lines are hardening, evangelical primates yesterday disclosed plans to use an emergency meeting called by Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in October to urge the immediate suspension of the Americans.

They will then demand that Dr Williams declare that, if the Episcopal Church fails to reverse its policies on actively homosexual clergy and gay "marriages", it is no longer Anglican.

A number of the conservatives believe that between a third and a half of the primates will back this hardline position, diminishing Dr Williams's chances of brokering a middle way in which both sides could co-exist within the same communion.

Insiders said that the primates' meeting, which is to take place at Lambeth Palace in London, would be a "showdown" which looked increasingly likely to end in a formal split.

They fear that the Episcopal Church, which enraged conservatives by confirming Canon Gene Robinson as Anglicanism's first actively homosexual bishop earlier this month, could vote to quit the Communion if suspended.

One leading conservative, Archbishop Drexel Gomez, the Primate of the West Indies, said that the Episcopal Church could "choose whether it wishes to remain with us or not" by reversing its decisions.

He said that he would be "very disappointed" if he did not have the support of at least 14 primates out of the total of 38, and he had not yet begun lobbying waverers. Conservative strategists believe the final figure will be 20 or more.

Another conservative, Archbishop Gregory Venables, the Primate of the Southern Cone [in South America], said: "The mind of many is that this is a crisis which cannot be fudged."

The conservative position is expected to be bolstered at a gathering of "global south" primates to be held in Africa a few weeks before the Lambeth Palace meeting.

They are taking as their blueprint Mending the Net, a document prepared by conservative archbishops, which proposed ways to manage crises provoked by parts of the Church introducing controversial unilateral actions.

The document says: "When, in the judgement of at least a significant minority of the primates, these contemplated changes exceed the limits of Anglican diversity, then the meeting should ask the province to refrain from implementing them."

If a "Godly admonition", a rebuke and call for repentance, fails, the erring province could be reduced to observer status at international meetings such as the 10-yearly Lambeth Conference. Expulsion could follow.

Conservative dioceses and parishes within the expelled province could then ally themselves with the bulk of the Communion, which would remain under the aegis of the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Previous disagreements have largely been solved by the moral and personal authority of the Archbishop of Canterbury of the time.

[ahadams2]

for what ever it's worth, I predict there will be two groups claiming they are the anglican communion by the end of 2004: One will be wacko unitarian in nature which will consist of the majority of ECUSA, a plurality of the Church of England,the Anglican Church of Canada, the Church of South Africa, the left wing parts of the Anglican Church in Australia and New Zealand, and that's about it - say 30 percent of the total Anglican Communion on paper, but 20 or less percent of the Anglicans who are in church each sunday morning.

The other (real) Anglican Communion will be the conservatives (i.e. everybody else) and will continue to preach and live the Faith once delivered to the Saints, such that within 50 years only the real Anglicans will survive.

[ahadams2]

To my RC friends: please be careful because if your next pope is not as strong as JPII you're going to end up going through this idiocy too!

[LiteKeeper]

SPOTREP - ECUSA

[trad_anglican]

Episcopal/Anglican ping

[N. Theknow]

Thanks for the ping trad.

How thoroughly refreshing to see an article where the word homosexual is used instead of the insidious word "gay."

I have never and will continue to never use the word "gay" to describe homosexuals. BTW, I have also observed that the word "homophobe" is more accurately descriptive of a homosexual who uses the word "gay" because he cannot admit he is homosexual.

[Eala]

Sadly, I think you're right. My hope is that the (currently) splintered fragments of Anglicanism in the US and elsewhere can sonehow draw together to form the "(real) Anglican Communion."

[Salvation]

**In fresh evidence that the battle lines are hardening, evangelical primates yesterday disclosed plans to use an emergency meeting called by Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in October to urge the immediate suspension of the Americans.**

This will be interesting to watch. I am sure we will be able to tell who emerges as the true Anglicans and the lefty Episcopalians.

[Salvation]

**To my RC friends: please be careful because if your next pope is not as strong as JPII you're going to end up going through this idiocy too!**

We are hoping that the next pope will be more traditional. Bringing us back!

[ahadams2]

You wrote: "Sadly, I think you're right. My hope is that the (currently) splintered fragments of Anglicanism in the US and elsewhere can sonehow draw together to form the "(real) Anglican Communion.""

I agree, although we will need to jump-start the Elizabethan Settlement again in order to accomplish this. Do you think that's possible? On my good days I think it is, and my bad days, I'm not so certain.

Note to our non-Anglican friends: the Elizabethan Settlement comes from the time of Elizabeth I. At that time there were two major theological factions in the Anglican Church. One adhered more to a modified form of Roman Catholicism, while the other might be generalized as a cross between Calvinism and Lutheranism. [I'm over generalizing here, and that 'smacking' sound you're hearing is coming from all the theologians out there slapping their foreheads simultaneously. :-)] In any case Elizabeth I came up with a simple solution: everybody would get along with each other, and anybody who refused to do so would spend time in prison, reconsidering their position. Believe it or not, that actually worked, more or less, for hundreds of years. Now obviously we can't back to throwing people in prison, but we do have to get back to the point where both groups can at least work with each other...by God's grace it can be done, I'm just wondering if everybody is willing to do it. The reason I brought this up with Eala is that he's from the Anglican Province of Christ the King - one of the groups closer to the Roman end of the spectrum, and I'm an Evangelical Charismatic who is way over on the Protestant end of the spectrum. I'm not trying to put him on the spot, but merely to get a feel for how things look over there in this regard.

[Eala]

Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that it would take something like the Elizabethan Settlement (I'd not know of that, btw) to draw the provinces together. I doubt the leadership of the various provinces would readily accept what might be considered a dilution of doctrine, orthodoxy, or even, maybe, of power.

This saddens me greatly, because it seems to me that conservative Anglicanism is, as ECUSA was, more than able to accomodate the broad spectrum from Protestant "low church" (what I grew up in) to Evangelical Charismatic (as my father has just founded under AMiA) to the near-Roman "high church" (which I've come to love).

[TruthNtegrity]

Ping

[FreeRep]

I read this on an Anglican Newsgroup.

What Next?


1) Most draconian outcome of this debacle: The Archibishop will declare himself out of communion with ECUSA and in Communion with some alternative--Forward in Faith, North America; the Anglican Mission in America; or perhaps the American Anglican Council. Don't expect this to happen.

2) Less draconian, but still pretty severe:establishment of some sort of Alternative Episcopal Oversight network in ECUSA. It would take two successive General Conventions to change the Constitution and Canons to make provision for this, and given the numbers there right now, it won't come about. Shoot, the General Convention has never managed to ratify the Articles of Religion. It's just not much good for this sort of thing.

3) Most likely externally: a number of southern hemisphere archidioceses will declare themselves out of communion w/ ECUSA. This will have little effect on ECUSA, since the Anglican Communion is defined as being In Communion w/ Canterbury, NOT each other. African dioceses may find their funding diminished. Expect to see more African Bishops and (occasionally) a primate or two making visits to parishes more aligned to their theology.

4) Most likely internally: conservative/orthodox dioceses will declare themselves "out of communion" with liberal / revisionistic / heterodox dioceses. The AAC (American Anglican Council) will strengthen its affiliative network and will publish some sort of list of which parishes/dioceses it considers sound and which it believes dodgy. Conservative parishes in liberal dioceses and liberal parishes in conservative dioceses will continue to feel "persecuted" and complain, initiate lawsuits, and the like. Demonization of bishops, clergy, and laity will be rampant. Withheld funds from dioceses and the national church not unusual. Impaired ability to do the work of ministry on a national or diocesan level or to proclaim the Gospel on a parochial level.

[ahadams2]

interesting... from discussions elsewhere, I can tell you for a fact that number 4 are not possible. Have been told directly by those who were there that some heretical bishops are informing the conservative clergy in their dioceses that any attempt to participate in the Plano meeting will mean that said heresiarchs will do everything possible to throw those conservative clergy completely out of the church.

Also strong indications that number 3 on that list is not likely either, since given known current stands by Southern Hemisphere primates there *will* be a direct confrontation with the the northern hemisphere primates at the October meeting at Lambeth. The most favorable result the heretics could hope for would be a split where the southern hemisphere declare themselves out of Communion with ECUSA, the CofE and the other heretic dominated provinces. If that happens, expect to see a strong effort to plant new Anglican parishes in North America, and also expect to see a number of conservative parishes (and at least a couple of dioceses) simply walk out of ECUSA to join Forward in Faith, AMIA, or whatever conglomerate is formed by those two organizations in combination with the Continuing Churches. I must say I would not be surprised at this, since Rowan Williams has made it clear that he personally supports the entire heretical/revisionist agenda.

obviously the best out come would be the first example on your list, and that's what we're praying for, but there's no telling which way the heretics in Lambeth Castle will jump..at least no telling from here...

[FreeRep]

I agree No. 1 would be the best.

[sweetliberty]

As painful as it would be, this is, in fact, exactly the kind of hardline that needs to be taken. I would hope, though, that provision for a remedy would be made, as a part of that decision, for those in the U.S. who wish to remain Anglicans and who reject the position of the national church.

[ahadams2]

You wrote: "I would hope, though, that provision for a remedy would be made, as a part of that decision, for those in the U.S. who wish to remain Anglicans and who reject the position of the national church."

That is undoubtedly part of the ongoing discussions which will will result in the meeting at Plano TX, the beginning of October.

[bonfire]

I'm reading this right now, from Bishop Stanton of Dallas. Thought you all might be interested:

http://www.bishop.jmstanton.com/