I think Novus Church is one that accepts your Discover card when the offering is taken.
Posted on 06/16/2003 8:41:08 PM PDT by Salvation
| MARY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY |
| Pope John Paul II |
Our Lady, who was granted the dignity of being the Mother of God, is also the favoured daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit Mary "is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). With this quote from the Second Vatican Council, the Holy Father expressed in concise form the Trinitarian dimension of Marian doctrine, which was the subject of his catechesis at the General Audience of Wednesday, 10 January. Here is a translation of his address, which was the 11th in the series on the Blessed Virgin and was given in Italian. 1. The eighth chapter of the Constitution Lumen gentium shows in the mystery of Christ the absolutely necessary reference to Marian doctrine. In this regard, the first words of the Introduction are significant: "Wishing in his supreme goodness and wisdom to effect the redemption of the world, 'when the fullness of time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman ... that we might receive the adoption of sons' (Gal 4:4-5)" (Lumen gentium, n. 52). This son is the Messiah awaited by the people of the Old Covenant, sent by the Father at a decisive moment of history, the "fullness of time" (Gal 4:4), which coincides with his birth in our world from a woman. She who brought the eternal Son of God to humanity can never be separated from him who is found at the centre of the divine plan carried out in history. The primacy of Christ is shown forth in the Church, his Mystical Body: in her "the faithful are joined to Christ the Head and are in communion with all his saints" (cf. Lumen gentium, n. 52). It is Christ who draws all men to himself. Since in her maternal role she is closely united with her Son, Mary helps direct the gaze and heart of believers towards him. She is the way that leads to Christ: indeed, she who "at the message of the angel received the Word of God in her heart and in her body" (Lumen gentium, n. 53) shows us how to receive into our lives the Son come down from heaven, teaching us to make Jesus the centre and the supreme "law" of our existence. A unique bond between Mary and the Holy Spirit 2. Mary also helps us discover, at the origin of the whole work of salvation, the sovereign action of the Father who calls men to become sons in the one Son. Recalling the very beautiful expressions of the Letter to the Ephesians: "God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ" (Eph 2:4), the Council gives God the title "most merciful": the Son "born of a woman" is thus seen as the fruit of the Father's mercy and enables us to understand better how this Woman is the "mother of mercy". In the same context, the Council also calls God "most wise", suggesting a particular attention to the close link between Mary and the divine wisdom, which in its mysterious plan willed the Virgin's motherhood. 3. The Council's text also reminds us of the unique bond uniting Mary with the Holy Spirit, using the words of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which we recite in the Eucharistic liturgy: "For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man". In expressing the unchanging faith of the Church, the Council reminds us that the marvellous incarnation of the Son took place in the Virgin Mary's womb without man's co-operation, by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Introduction to the eighth chapter of Lumen gentium thus shows in a Trinitarian perspective an essential dimension of Marian doctrine. Everything in fact comes from the will of the Father, who has sent his Son into the world, revealing him to men and establishing him as the Head of the Church and the centre of history. This is a plan that was fulfilled by the Incarnation, the work of the Holy Spirit, but with the essential co-operation of a woman, the Virgin Mary, who thus became an integral part in the economy of communicating the Trinity to mankind. 4. Mary's threefold relationship with the divine Persons is confirmed in precise words and with a description of the characteristic relationship which links the Mother of the Lord to the Church: "She is endowed with the high office and dignity of the Mother of the Son of God, and therefore she is also the beloved daughter of the Father and the temple of the Holy Spirit" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). Mary's fundamental dignity is that of being "Mother of the Son", which is expressed in Christian doctrine and devotion with the title "Mother of God". This is a surprising term, which shows the humility of God's only-begotten Son in his Incarnation and, in connection with it, the most high privilege granted a creature who was called to give him birth in the flesh. Mother of the Son, Mary is the "beloved daughter of the Father" in a unique way. She has been granted an utterly special likeness between her motherhood and the divine fatherhood. And again: every Christian is a "temple of the Holy Spirit", according to the Apostle Paul's expression (1 Cor 6:19). But this assertion takes on an extraordinary meaning in Mary: in her the relationship with the Holy Spirit is enriched with a spousal dimension. I recalled this in the Encyclical Redemptoris Mater: "The Holy Spirit had already come down upon her, and she became his faithful spouse at the Annunciation, welcoming the Word of the true God..." (n. 26). Mary's dignity surpasses that of every creature 5. Mary's privileged relationship with the Trinity therefore confers on her a dignity which far surpasses that of every other creature. The Council recalls this explicitly: because of this "gift of sublime grace" Mary "far surpasses all creatures" (Lumen gentium, n. 53). However, this most high dignity does not hinder Mary's solidarity with each of us. The Constitution Lumen gentium goes on to say: "But, being of the race of Adam, she is at the same time also united to all those who are to be saved" and she has been "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (ibid.). Here we see the authentic meaning of Mary's privileges and of her extraordinary relationship with the Trinity: their purpose is to enable her to co-operate in the salvation of the human race. The immeasurable greatness of the Lord's Mother therefore remains a gift of God's love for all men. By proclaiming her "blessed" (Lk 1:48), generations praise the "great things" (Lk 1:49) the Almighty has done in her for humanity, "in remembrance of his mercy" (Lk 1:54). |
| Taken from: L'Osservatore Romano Weekly Edition in English 17 January 1996, page 11 L'Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See. The Cathedral Foundation
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So which version of the Bible do you use and why, and how is it accurate where it reads differently from other Bibles, and why does it omit books like Ecclesiasticus and 2 Maccabees and Tobit which are in my Bible and all the Bibles that were published from AD 400 when the first Bibles were put together up to AD 1800, and in all Catholic and Orthodox Bibles since then?
Why can't the Jehovah's Witnesses legitimately claim "God preserved His word" in their mutilated version? Who set you up to judge between all of them?
Tell me which version is right here at Genesis 5.32:
After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth. (NIV)
And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth. (KJV, NASB)
So did Noah father all his children when he was 500 years old, or after? Which Bible is right?
It takes faith to accept Jesus as your Lord and savior.
Where can you find this Protestant formulation in the Bible? Where is the warrant for your altar calls? Where did Jesus say you must "accept" him?
He simply says trust in me not in a man made system of do's and don'ts.
Where? Enquiring minds want to know.
Not what I said. Go and re-read it again.
There is nothing wrong with calling the faithful of the Church "saints" in the sense that they are part of Holy Church, and aspire to live life so as to become a saint.
Paul is describing the believers as saints, but the term is not being used in the same way as we use Saint to describe the blessed in heaven. Both uses are legitimate, and both occur in the Bible. That doesn't mean that all members of the Church will become the Saints of heaven. That's a species of universalism.
Yep, once again tradition trumps Scripture, sadly. We both agree there are saints in heaven. What you ignore is that there are saints living now and that saint and believer are often used interchageably.
I'm not ignoring it at all. You are skimming right over where I said exactly that. But calling a believer a saint doesn't exclude the word from having a different meaning regarding those in heaven. And it has nothing to do with tradition trumping scripture. If it makes it easier for you to understand, we could stick with discussing things using the terms of the early Christians - saints denoting the believers, and Blessed denoting those believers united to God in heaven. The meaning is the same as what I am using.
Furthermore the canonization of saints with attesting miracles has no biblical foundation and is at odds with the New testament.
News to me. Where does it read "thou shalt not canonize"?
The cultus of the saints and martyrs and their relics can be found in the very earliest post-Biblical documents (The Martyrdom of Polycarp, etc.)
And so we afterwards took up his bones which are more valuable than precious stones and finer than refined gold, and laid them in a suitable place; where the Lord will permit us to gather ourselves together, as we are able, in gladness and joy, and to celebrate the birth-day of his martyrdom for the commemoration of those that have already fought in the contest, and for the training and preparation of those that shall do so hereafter. (Martyrdom of Polycarp, 18.2-3)
Amazing how the Church fell immediately into heresy after circa AD 100, according to the Protestant Fairytale, and all men wallowed in ignorance and error until 'noble' Luther and Calvin finally came 1400 years later to pull back the veil and enlighten us. Amazing that Christ would forsake his Church in this way after he promised to be with us always.
Can we sin in the womb?
Don't you believe in Original Sin? Can a child have Original Sin and also be filled with the Holy Ghost? Obviously not.
Are you disingenuously claiming that what is written regarding John the Baptist and Jeremiah the Prophet does not concern their whole lives, but only their life up to the first time they sinned? That's quite a stretch!
"... and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." (Luke 1.15) That certainly seems to say that John will always be filled with the Holy Ghost, and that this filling will commence while he is in the womb.
Lets go back to basics. Did Jeremiah or John the Baptist ever sin? I say no, based on the texts cited. If God gave them the grace to avoid all sin, why wouldn't he also give it to Mary?
Protestants should learn the humility of the Ethiopian, and come to understand that the reader of the Bible cannot learn the faith there, but must already have the faith, because faith does not come from reading. "Faith then cometh by hearing." (Romans 10.17) Nor is everything of faith in the Bible. "Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2.15) When you reject the unwritten traditions handed down by the Church, you reject part of God's revelation. This rejection makes it extremely difficult to understand the Bible, and accounts for the mass confusion between the thousands of Protestant sects, and their universal state of error with respect to their holding of the entirety of the Catholic Faith. What a sorry state to be in!
And he was returning, sitting in his chariot and reading Isaias the prophet. And the Spirit said to Philip: Go near and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest? Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. (Acts 8.28-31)
YOPIOS? How many of your fellow FR Catholics will buy this one? Ping a few, might be interesting.
Loyalist and Salvation, please send out the pings.
Dr Steve:
I am filled with the Holy Ghost when I exit the confessional. Of St. John the Baptist it was said "and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." My status as a Temple of the Holy Ghost is temporary, unless I can manage to sin no more, which is difficult, because it does not appear that God has yet granted me such a grace. The description of St. John the Baptist's status implies a permanent condition because of a special grace of God, where he is "filled with the Holy Ghost" for his whole life (the unstated but implict truth), "even from his mother's womb."
Again, what is the point of God sancifying an unborn child in the womb if he is to later become a actual sinner like the rest of us? No one would be aware of this special grace unless it was manifested in the rest of his life.
Regarding St. John the Baptist, the Church traditionally has held that he is the second greatest of the saints, after Blessed Mary. He is thus accorded feasts of his Nativity (June 24), Beheading(August 29). He is listed after Blessed Mary and St. Michael in the Confiteor of the Mass, after Blessed Mary in the Suscipa Sancta Trinitas in the Offertory, and first in the list of Martyrs in the Nobis quoque peaccatoribus in the Canon.
You have not demonstrated that being filled with the Spirit results in ongoing and permanent sinlessness. Nevetheless, here are some more for your list to elevate to permanent sinless status.
I don't think I will ever demonstrate it to your satisfaction, unless you become a Catholic. Its enough for me that the Church teaches it, and the Bible gives evidence in support of this teaching. Turning the tables, can you prove St. John the Baptist sinned?
Acts 2:4 A group of disciples on Pentecost
The Church has traditionally held that the Holy Apostles were sinless (and infallible in their teaching) from the time they were filled with the Holy Ghost on Pentecost.
Acts 9:16, 13:9 Paul
And Holy Church has held similarly regarding Blessed Paul from the time of his conversion.
As I said above, you I don't think you can prove these people did sin from the Bible. Its just as reasonable, based on Biblical evidence alone, to believe that God's sanctification was a permanent action in them.
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man. And the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. (James 5.15-16)
Do you believe the Church contains sinners, as the Apostle James cleary says? How can sinners be anything other than saints by anticipation? They certainly cannot be termed holy by any other definition. One is only holy if he is without sin.
I think Novus Church is one that accepts your Discover card when the offering is taken.
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