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To: drstevej; Salvation; Loyalist
***Lets go back to basics. Did Jeremiah or John the Baptist ever sin? I say no, based on the texts cited.***

YOPIOS? How many of your fellow FR Catholics will buy this one? Ping a few, might be interesting.

Loyalist and Salvation, please send out the pings.

Dr Steve:

I am filled with the Holy Ghost when I exit the confessional. Of St. John the Baptist it was said "and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." My status as a Temple of the Holy Ghost is temporary, unless I can manage to sin no more, which is difficult, because it does not appear that God has yet granted me such a grace. The description of St. John the Baptist's status implies a permanent condition because of a special grace of God, where he is "filled with the Holy Ghost" for his whole life (the unstated but implict truth), "even from his mother's womb."

Again, what is the point of God sancifying an unborn child in the womb if he is to later become a actual sinner like the rest of us? No one would be aware of this special grace unless it was manifested in the rest of his life.

Regarding St. John the Baptist, the Church traditionally has held that he is the second greatest of the saints, after Blessed Mary. He is thus accorded feasts of his Nativity (June 24), Beheading(August 29). He is listed after Blessed Mary and St. Michael in the Confiteor of the Mass, after Blessed Mary in the Suscipa Sancta Trinitas in the Offertory, and first in the list of Martyrs in the Nobis quoque peaccatoribus in the Canon.

You have not demonstrated that being filled with the Spirit results in ongoing and permanent sinlessness. Nevetheless, here are some more for your list to elevate to permanent sinless status.

I don't think I will ever demonstrate it to your satisfaction, unless you become a Catholic. Its enough for me that the Church teaches it, and the Bible gives evidence in support of this teaching. Turning the tables, can you prove St. John the Baptist sinned?

Acts 2:4 A group of disciples on Pentecost

The Church has traditionally held that the Holy Apostles were sinless (and infallible in their teaching) from the time they were filled with the Holy Ghost on Pentecost.

Acts 9:16, 13:9 Paul

And Holy Church has held similarly regarding Blessed Paul from the time of his conversion.

As I said above, you I don't think you can prove these people did sin from the Bible. Its just as reasonable, based on Biblical evidence alone, to believe that God's sanctification was a permanent action in them.

131 posted on 06/18/2003 6:07:36 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Alberta's Child; Aloysius; AniGrrl; Antoninus; Bellarmine; BlackElk; Canticle_of_Deborah; ...
PING
152 posted on 06/18/2003 8:15:53 AM PDT by Loyalist (Keeper of the Schismatic Orc Ping List. Freepmail me if you want on or off it.)
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