Posted on 02/16/2019 3:32:00 PM PST by pcottraux
Is Jesus God?
By Philip Cottraux
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not (John 1:1,10). It’s one thing to believe Jesus is the Messiah. Or the Son of God. But God? While firmly settled by Christians long ago, many still grapple with it. Muslims and Jehovah’s Witnesses are fine with labeling Jesus a prophet, but consider equating Him with the Almighty blasphemy, pointing out that nowhere in the four gospels did He demand worship. The thorny issue of the Trinity is at the center of the controversy. How exactly could God exist in three different persons but still be one?
I’ll address the Trinity another time. For this week I want to honestly look at the scriptural objections to Jesus being God, which usually revolves around three verses:
Mark 10:17-18: And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God.
John 14:28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mark 13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Let’s first address the bigger issue of why Jesus didn’t demand worship. The obvious answer is that He came to be our example. As Christians, we are to emulate Christ as much as possible. Jesus taught humility; walking around saying “I am God, worship Me” would not have exactly set a good standard for His followers. But it also would have been counterproductive to His ministry, detracting from teaching people how to treat one another.
Jesus’ proclamation that only the Father knows when the coming of the Lord is admittedly problematic because it gets into the mystery of the incarnation. What does it mean exactly for God to become a man? Theologians have debated this since the birth of Christianity. Philippians 2:7-8 indicates that Christ emptied Himself, but isn’t exactly clear on what. I think the best interpretation is that as the eternal God, Jesus had to experience the limitations of humanity to be our Savior. He could become tired, thirsty or hungry. Yet He could also walk on water and perform miracles. So the question of Him not knowing when His return would be falls into the realm of this enigma. Does He still not know after ascending to heaven? Is the Father keeping the information for Himself? Or did He only not know while inhabiting an earthly body?
We may never know. But we need to read the Bible entirely and consistently. So this verse must be reconciled with other scriptural evidence for Christ’s deity. I often say that cherry-picking Bible verses out of context is a wrong way to approach the Word (Christians and their critics are both guilty of this). When someone presents me with a scripture and demands an explanation, I ask them to look at the scriptures around it, what chapter it’s in, who wrote it, and what the historical context is.
In Mark 10, Jesus was addressed as “good teacher,” to which He responded “Why do you call me good? There is no one good but the Father.” But in context, Jesus was asking the man to stop and think about the impact of what He was saying. We can find more clarity for this passage by matching it with Matthew’s account, which contains a second clause: Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
With John 14:28, Trinity deniers overlook what comes beforehand. In verse 26, Jesus referenced both the Father and Holy Spirit: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Jesus was warning the disciples in advance about His soon-coming death, resurrection, and ascension. He told them the Holy Spirit would come in His place. Now in verse 28, He continued that they should be glad rather than mourn for Him. Instead of just focusing on the last phrase “For the Father is greater than I,” let’s break it down.
“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you.” Jesus is referencing His earlier statements that He would return some day.
“If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father:” Jesus now tells them that if they love Him they will rejoice instead of grieve.
“for my Father is greater than I.” “Greater” doesn’t have to necessarily mean ontologically superior. Jesus is still bound by the limitations of an earthly body. It’s harder to interpret His words as “Rejoice that I’m going to the Father, because He’s God and I’m not.” John 14:28 makes more sense in light of John 17:5: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world began.
These three examples fall apart as arguments against the deity of Christ when completely overwhelmed by the verses supporting His deity. This is why Muslims and Jehovah’s Witnesses have to carefully frame the challenge “Name one verse where Jesus demanded worship.” instead “Name one verse where Jesus claimed to be GOD,” because those are in abundance.
-As I wrote last week, when Jesus is walking on the water in Matthew 14:27, English versions have slightly mistranslated the phrase Be of good cheer; it is I, be not afraid. The original Greek text literally said “Be not afraid, I AM.” Jesus invoked the Tetragrammaton, the sacred name of God given to Moses on Mount Sinai before the burning bush (YHWH), to describe Himself.
-But this wasn’t the only time. In John 8:58: Jesus said Verily verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Notice the reaction of the crowd immediately afterward: Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple going through the midst of them, and so passed by (verse 59). They sought to kill Him because He had made a claim they considered blasphemous.
John 14:9: He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 10:30: I and my Father are one.
Christ also matches Biblical descriptions of God. He is:
Omniscient: Now are we sure that thou (Jesus) knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God (John 16:30).
Omnipresent: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them (Matthew 18:20).
Omnipotent: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth (Matthew 18:19).
Exists eternally: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty (Revelation 1:8).
One of Jesus’ most common self-expressions was as “the son of man.” For example, right before His arrest He predicted behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners (Matthew 26:45). Critics use this moniker as Jesus viewing Himself a mere mortal. However, they overlook what this phrase was both referencing and setting up. At His trial, when demanded to answer whether He was the Christ, He responded Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven (Matthew 26:64).
It turns out by invoking “Son of Man,” Jesus was citing a prophesy in Daniel 7:13: I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Now that we have established solid scriptural teaching that Jesus is God, what will you do with Him? That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10-11).
Those who recognized Christ as the power of God fell down and worshipped Him. And the real fact is that God wants the very same thing for us-to have perfect beauty, joy, love, etc. That is, after all, why He came and paid the price for our sins. Those who reject Christ really reject the love and beauty that God has to offer.
Exo 20:21 The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was.
God is spirit so If we see a man as God why would we not consider
his mother, was Mary the mother of Jesus or not?.
It does not bother me that much so you all just figure it out to
suit yourself.
The God we will see does not have a mother...
That’s true because Jesus himself
said no one has seen God at any time.
Not trying to rehash everything that folks have responded to you - I semi perused what the responses were.
Read John 1 again. He and God are one in the same with the Holy Spirit. Humans make it hard to grasp that fact (that and the devil likes to confuse), but there it stands as a fact in the real paradigm that is this universe regardless.
Don’t take my word for it. There are plenty of verses to look & study through if you are really intentionally looking for the answer.
John 1 (entire chapter)
John 10:30
John 10:33 (they tried to stone Him for the claim)
John 8:58 (He’s been there from the beginning)
Acts 20:28 (God purchased the Church with His Own Blood)
John 20:28 (Thomas declares Jesus - My God)
2 Peter 1:1 (So did Peter)
Titus 2:13 (So did Titus)
Hebrews 1:8 (So did Paul)
God has always been.
If God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same, and they are, then God didn’t create himself, and then Jesus. They’ve always been there and always will be.
https://www.gotquestions.org/alpha-and-omega.html
I'll try to think of another one for next week!
Pentecostals are typically Protestant Arminian Evangelicals, so not sure where you got that...although there are some charismatic groups within orthodox religions now.
I think they believe Jesus was God in the flesh so I just assumed.
I believe that Jesus was both God and man, God in spirit and man in the flesh, however he is my lord an God.
Too funny - when Jesus walked the earth, He was 100% God (the Son) and 100% Man - He prayed to God the Father and encouraged other Men to do so.
God revealed Himself to us in 3 forms, but He is still one God.
Trinity appears no where in Scripture. Trinity speaks of 3 separate Gods. Triune speaks of 3 forms of one God. If God was a Trinity, I suppose it makes it easier to worship Mary, John, Paul, Peter, and other saints. There is but one God and all our worship should be His.
How could Melchizedek, have no beginning and no end, be a High Priest forever, be the King of Salem, and have no genealogy? God appeared on earth in bodily form thousands of years before the birth of Christ. To a Jew, a King and a Priest cannot be the same person, unless He is in the order Melchizedek. Melchizedek was a theophany of Jesus or Jesus is not a High Priest forever. If He had no beginning or end, one could say Jesus was born of Mary and died on the cross so we should be looking to Melchizedek for salvation.
God is Spirit and can appear in whatever form He chooses. Was the burning bush God? No, God was in the form of a burning bush. Jesus is the fleshly form God took to be a final sacrifice for His people, but there is still but one God. If God is spirit, is the Holy Spirit God, or a part of God, or another God?
Which is why we need the fullness of God, not just part. The three are inseparable; you can't have the Father without the Son, and you can't have the Father and Son without the Holy Spirit. It's impossible to operate receiving only 1/3 or 2/3 of God. He will not be divided.
From my understanding, Maryology emerged in the centuries following the Early Church from the thorny issue of how Jesus could be sinless if He was born from the seed of Adam. Obviously since Joseph was His earthly father that's not a problem; so now we turn to His earthly mother, Mary. Ascending her into a divine realm as Mother of God seemed to fix the problem nicely. However, I would point out that you're still left with the issue that the Messiah had to be a descendant of David (and this couldn't be if He had no human parents).
And no matter how much we give Him, it would never be enough.
Arianism.
There's an ancient legend that Saint Nicholas (yes, Santa Claus) punched Arius in the face at the Nicene Council for suggesting that.
Amen!
Yet when many Catholics are faced with zero testimony for one of their beliefs, such as the Assumption or prayer to created beings in Heaven (which among other things means such have the power to hear prayer in Heaven, which only God is shown to have) then they God argue that nothing is impossible with God.
And thus since God is said to have preserved Mary from sin without her own parents being so, then they should not require her to be sinless in order for the sinless Christ to be born of her.
And if being sinless was required in order to bear the sinless Son of God, then why would she also not have to be perfect in character in order to bear one who was? But of course, for many uncensored Catholics, pretty much whatever Christ was and is, Mary also was and is , except as possessing Divinity by nature and perhaps headship over Christ.
Meanwhile, God "brought forth" His pure word thru imperfect but holy men, and as you point out, The sinless Savior had a sinful genealogy, coming out of Israel according to the flesh.
Yet when many Catholics are faced with zero testimony for one of their beliefs, such as the Assumption or prayer to created beings in Heaven (which among other things means such have the power to hear prayer in Heaven, which only God is shown to have) then they God argue that nothing is impossible with God.
I don't mean to be too hard on Catholicism or any other orthodox religion because some of my good friends are Catholic. When I first ventured into social media, I learned very quickly that people of other faiths...orthodox Christians, Mormons, even Muslims...were generally polite and respectful. The first time I crossed the atheist internet troll community, I quickly learned who the real enemy was! I still have nightmares of that horror show!
That said, I still can't compromise with Catholic doctrine. It's puzzling to me how much they get right...I appreciate that Catholic church's contributions to philosophy and science and how well-versed in those subjects their members tend to be. But when it comes to their own history, such as how Maryology, transubstantiation, purgatory, etc. entered Catholic dogma, they get it really, embarrassingly wrong.
You want a good show, read some objective history about Martin Luther and the Reformation. Then listen to a Catholic apologist describe Martin Luther and the Reformation. It's actually really funny to compare.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.