Posted on 02/16/2019 3:32:00 PM PST by pcottraux
Is Jesus God?
By Philip Cottraux
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not (John 1:1,10). Its one thing to believe Jesus is the Messiah. Or the Son of God. But God? While firmly settled by Christians long ago, many still grapple with it. Muslims and Jehovahs Witnesses are fine with labeling Jesus a prophet, but consider equating Him with the Almighty blasphemy, pointing out that nowhere in the four gospels did He demand worship. The thorny issue of the Trinity is at the center of the controversy. How exactly could God exist in three different persons but still be one?
Ill address the Trinity another time. For this week I want to honestly look at the scriptural objections to Jesus being God, which usually revolves around three verses:
Mark 10:17-18: And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God.
John 14:28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mark 13:32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Lets first address the bigger issue of why Jesus didnt demand worship. The obvious answer is that He came to be our example. As Christians, we are to emulate Christ as much as possible. Jesus taught humility; walking around saying I am God, worship Me would not have exactly set a good standard for His followers. But it also would have been counterproductive to His ministry, detracting from teaching people how to treat one another.
Jesus proclamation that only the Father knows when the coming of the Lord is admittedly problematic because it gets into the mystery of the incarnation. What does it mean exactly for God to become a man? Theologians have debated this since the birth of Christianity. Philippians 2:7-8 indicates that Christ emptied Himself, but isnt exactly clear on what. I think the best interpretation is that as the eternal God, Jesus had to experience the limitations of humanity to be our Savior. He could become tired, thirsty or hungry. Yet He could also walk on water and perform miracles. So the question of Him not knowing when His return would be falls into the realm of this enigma. Does He still not know after ascending to heaven? Is the Father keeping the information for Himself? Or did He only not know while inhabiting an earthly body?
We may never know. But we need to read the Bible entirely and consistently. So this verse must be reconciled with other scriptural evidence for Christs deity. I often say that cherry-picking Bible verses out of context is a wrong way to approach the Word (Christians and their critics are both guilty of this). When someone presents me with a scripture and demands an explanation, I ask them to look at the scriptures around it, what chapter its in, who wrote it, and what the historical context is.
In Mark 10, Jesus was addressed as good teacher, to which He responded Why do you call me good? There is no one good but the Father. But in context, Jesus was asking the man to stop and think about the impact of what He was saying. We can find more clarity for this passage by matching it with Matthews account, which contains a second clause: Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
With John 14:28, Trinity deniers overlook what comes beforehand. In verse 26, Jesus referenced both the Father and Holy Spirit: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Jesus was warning the disciples in advance about His soon-coming death, resurrection, and ascension. He told them the Holy Spirit would come in His place. Now in verse 28, He continued that they should be glad rather than mourn for Him. Instead of just focusing on the last phrase For the Father is greater than I, lets break it down.
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. Jesus is referencing His earlier statements that He would return some day.
If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: Jesus now tells them that if they love Him they will rejoice instead of grieve.
for my Father is greater than I. Greater doesnt have to necessarily mean ontologically superior. Jesus is still bound by the limitations of an earthly body. Its harder to interpret His words as Rejoice that Im going to the Father, because Hes God and Im not. John 14:28 makes more sense in light of John 17:5: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world began.
These three examples fall apart as arguments against the deity of Christ when completely overwhelmed by the verses supporting His deity. This is why Muslims and Jehovahs Witnesses have to carefully frame the challenge Name one verse where Jesus demanded worship. instead Name one verse where Jesus claimed to be GOD, because those are in abundance.
-As I wrote last week, when Jesus is walking on the water in Matthew 14:27, English versions have slightly mistranslated the phrase Be of good cheer; it is I, be not afraid. The original Greek text literally said Be not afraid, I AM. Jesus invoked the Tetragrammaton, the sacred name of God given to Moses on Mount Sinai before the burning bush (YHWH), to describe Himself.
-But this wasnt the only time. In John 8:58: Jesus said Verily verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Notice the reaction of the crowd immediately afterward: Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple going through the midst of them, and so passed by (verse 59). They sought to kill Him because He had made a claim they considered blasphemous.
John 14:9: He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 10:30: I and my Father are one.
Christ also matches Biblical descriptions of God. He is:
Omniscient: Now are we sure that thou (Jesus) knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God (John 16:30).
Omnipresent: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them (Matthew 18:20).
Omnipotent: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth (Matthew 18:19).
Exists eternally: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty (Revelation 1:8).
One of Jesus most common self-expressions was as the son of man. For example, right before His arrest He predicted behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners (Matthew 26:45). Critics use this moniker as Jesus viewing Himself a mere mortal. However, they overlook what this phrase was both referencing and setting up. At His trial, when demanded to answer whether He was the Christ, He responded Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven (Matthew 26:64).
It turns out by invoking Son of Man, Jesus was citing a prophesy in Daniel 7:13: I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Now that we have established solid scriptural teaching that Jesus is God, what will you do with Him? That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10-11).
"Is Jesus God?"
It's like the media asking if Hillary should be president. "No" is not an acceptable answer.
It's not that complicated. The Gospel narratives document that
Established beliefs are settled, so good luck getting through.
Jesus is the quintessential anti-establishment type.
Jesus was rejected by the Establishment for being... Jesus.
The Establishment Jesus is the fake Jesus. Q.E.D.
Meanwhile, as for keeping it real, the Gospel writers included many of Jesus' hiking, mountain climbing, camping, boating, and fishing adventures. A real outdoorsman. He even offered valuable fishing advice. Yet who would think to find him in Cabela's, the "World's Foremost Outfitter".
</public service announcement>
I didn’t realize I was in a competition with CS Lewis.
You arent. Not even close
I am just saying Jesus the man was God or he wasn’t,
if he was then Mary was his mother.
My view is that Jesus was God in the spirit but not in the flesh.
because God is spirit and not flesh.
The spirit which was in Jesus was here from the beginning but Jesus
In the flesh was not here until the first century ad, some of the
comments are are putting down the people who believe Jesus was the son of God, they need to think about it
Yes - His version was made for Human consumption so we could better relate to a loving God who could also relate to us.
All I have seen is contention against that except in certain qualified technical sense, which is not the Catholic usage. Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, (1 Timothy 3:16; John 1:1,2,14) being God in nature though His real corporal, holy body that He took on (Hebrews 2:16; Phil. 2:7; 1 John 4:2,3) ) was provided for Him, (Heb. 10:5) and is not what God is by nature. (Luke 24:39)
As Jesus was God in His incarnation as He was before He was clothed with a sentient physical body, so in a certain sense it might be argued that Mary can be called the mother of God in a functional sense relative to the incarnation. But which normally denotes ontological oneness, and Mary contributed absolutely nothing to the deity of Christ.
And the Holy Spirit shows careful wording relative to the incarnation and the uncreated nature of God, clarifying that while Christ came out of Israel, yet this refers to the flesh: "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." (Romans 9:5)
However, the RC appellation of Mother of God is not even that of a qualified technical sense, but is a exalted formal title which is preferred above the less misleading Orthodox "God-bearer," since it is part of their hyper exaltation of Mary into an omnipotent "by grace") demigoddess, paralleling Christ.
For in the the Catholic quest to almost deify Mary, it is taught by Catholics*,
As the the Son of God has a unique unique relationship with the Persons of the Trinity, so also Mary is said to have a unique relationship with all three Persons of the Trinity;
As Christ is the express image of God, and highly exalted above all under the Father, having the primary position among all creation, so Mary is declared to be the greatest saint of all, and the first of all creatures, and as having a certain affinity with the Father, with a pre-eminent resemblance which she bears to the Father;
As Christ was called the Son of God, indicating ontological oneness, so Mary is called the Mother of God (which naturally infers the same, and is not the language of Scripture, which even clarifies Israel birthed Christ "according to the flesh, God blessed for ever": Rm. 9:4,5);
As the the Son of God supernaturally, spiritually makes believing souls into children of God, Mary is said to be the mother of Christians in "supernatural and spiritual generation."
As Christ was sinless, so Mary was;
As the Lord remained a virgin, so also Mary;
As the Lord was bodily ascended into Heaven, so Mary also was;
As the Holy Spirit directs believers to be "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith," (Hebrews 12:2) in whom believes are accounted a holy nation, (1 Pt. 2:9) so Catholicism teaches that believers are to "turn their eyes to Mary" in whom "the Church is already the 'all-holy." (CCC 829)
As the Father made Christ Lord over all things, so Mary is said to be enthroned above all creation (all other believers have to wait for their crowns) and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things;
As Christ is given all power in heaven and in earth, so Mary is surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven.
As Christ is given all power on Heaven and on earth, so Mary is said to have (showing some restraint) almost unlimited power; and showing less restraint, to be "omnipotent" (by grace);
As God the Father made His Divine Son functionally the Lord over the universe, so Mary states, "I command what I will, and introduce whom I will."
As no man comes to the Father but through the Son, so it is taught that no one can come to the Son except through Mary in Heaven;
As no one can obtain mercy, be saved/redeemed or be delivered and know the Father but through the Son, so the same is said of Mary;
As those whom God has chosen will come to Him, so it is said that if Mary wills our salvation, and then we are sure to obtain it.
As the emphasis is upon Christ as the Creator through whom God (the Father) made all things, including Mary, so it is emphasized that uniquely to her, Jesus owes His Precious Blood, shed for the salvation of mankind, (the logic behind which can lead back to Eve);
As Scripture declares that Christ suffered for our sins, so Mary is said to have done so also, even all the consequences of sin;
As Christ redeemed mankind (as many as truly believe) with the Father and the Spirit, so it is said of Mary that "we might rightly say she redeemed the human race together with Christ."
As Christ saves us from the condemnation and death resulting from the fault of Adam, so it is taught that man was condemned through the fault of Eve, the root of death, but that we are saved through the merits of Mary; who was the source of life for everyone.
As all things come from the Father through the Son, so Mary is made to be the dispenser of all grace; that "through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation."
As believers have confidence through Christ, so Mary is extolled as being the foundation of all the believer's confidence.
As the Lord wills all souls to be saved through Christ, so it is said that it is God's will that we obtain everything through Mary.
And as the Lord called souls to come to Him to be given life and salvation, so (in misappropriation of the words of Scripture) it is said of Mary, He that shall find me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord; that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.
As Christ is the King of the saints and over all kings, (Rv. 15:3; 17:14; 19:16) so Mary is made Queen of Heaven and the greatest saint, and that Next to God, she deserves the highest praise;
As Christ ever liveth to make intercession for the saints, so is Mary said to be in constant intercession;
as only to God is ascribed the power and privilege of hearing prayer from all flesh, so also is Mary extolled as doing so;
as believers only address God/Christ in prayer to Heaven, including in prostration before Him, so also do Catholics pray to Mary;
as believers only pray to God to have mercy on sinners, so Catholics beseech Mary to do so.
As Catholics (adding error to error) believe Christ gave His "real" flesh and blood to be eaten, so it is emphasized that Mary gave Him this, being fashioned out of Mary's pure blood and even being kneaded with the admixture of her virginal milk, so that she can say, "Come and eat my bread, drink the wine I have prepared" (Prov. 9:5);
And as Christ is given many titles of honor, so Mary also is, except that she is honored by Catholics with more titles than they give to the Lord Himself! - http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/MarySC.html#ascriptions
I like to keep it simple, if Jesus is God in the flesh why wouldn’t Mary be the mother of God.
But yes I do agree that the Catholics
go well beyond scripture.
For the as "the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God" (1 Corinthians 11:3) so the Father is the God of Christ, yet that positional distinction is NOT one of nature any more than it is before the male and the female (which God, as "us" made in His image).
There is an order in the triune God, and who is revealed as such, with "one" being a composite oneness consisting of 3 persons of the same unique uncreated nature, and with the Son "being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power." (Hebrews 1:3)
Either Christ is God by nature of you have multitude contradictions, not only with Christ being explicitly called God though God is one, but since the Holy Spirit ascribes to Christ Scriptures, unique attributes, glory, and titles which would be blasphemous if applied to mere created beings.
See The DEITY of CHRIST by the grace of God.
One of the most subtle yet clear revelations of Christ as being God is the answer given to the question in John 12:34b, "who is this Son of man?" In which it is revealed that the Son of God is the God whom Isaiah speaks of, and saw in His glory in Isaiah 6 high and lifted up: |
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Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. (John 12:35-36) |
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour. (Isaiah 45:15) |
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. (John 12:37-40) |
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord [yehôvâh] of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. (Isaiah 6:1-4) \ Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for US? Then said I, Here am I; send me. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. (Isaiah 6:8-10) |
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. (John 12:41) |
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Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me . (John 12:44-45) |
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Thus we have the affirmation by seeing Thomas, And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:28-29) |
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:7-8)
Because of what "mother" denotes, that in some way deity has a mother, versus being as a mother to God in that He choose to take upon flesh thru Mary, who was created by that God.
Calling Mary "the Mother of God" who is in reality her Father at the very least promotes misunderstanding and is not the language of Scripture.
Meanwhile, to deny that Jesus was God in the flesh means that God cannot take upon human flesh without changing His nature or ceasing to be God while in that nature, both of which are absurd and is not what Scripture teaches.
God is God even if He come as an angel, (Gn. 18:17,22) while neither the created nature of man or angels is that of God, who can physically wrestle with man.
Because Jesus is not God in the flesh that was known before his resurrection...That flesh was done away with...Just as when mankind dies and is buried or eaten by sharks, or is cremated; that flesh rots or is burned up...That flesh will not be resurrected...A NEW body will be prepared for us, just as a new body was prepared for Jesus...
And for those of us who are alive at the rapture, the flesh that we wear will not be acceptable in heaven...It will be changed in the twinkling of an eye...
And so goes Mary...She was the mother of the flesh of Jesus; his limbs, muscles, brain, and so on...She was not the mother of his soul, nor spirit...The part Mary was the mother of did not go to heaven...It died...
Trinity isn’t a reference to a Terence Hill.
I guess this is heresy but I believe God and Jesus are separate entities. Sorry, who was Jesus praying to all the time, himself?
So when Jesus was praying to God it was an act because he was praying to himself?
John 1:1
Sorry, who was Jesus praying to all the time, himself?
No, his father who was in Heaven.
So the father and the son are separate entities. I agree.
They are one. Along with the holy spirit.
No, He was praying to God His Father, which is not opposed to Christ being God the Son, as being God in nature, together with the Holy Spirit, all sharing the same Divine, untreated nature, who together created all things.
You are either going to have to make Jesus, thru whom all things were created, into being a created being, or are not co-existing with the Father (modalism/Sabellianism) or into being 3 different God, none of which is God describes Himself in the non-contradictory complimentary totality of Scripture.
See post 28 for starters.
If I am going to hell because I think Jesus is God’s son, kind of a advocate, or attorney if you will, for mankind then so be it. My opinion is God created Jesus so when the judgement comes Jesus can say yeah been there done that so he can rightfully relate to the human condition and properly either speak on our behalf or not. I know this sounds simplistic to you super sophisticates but that is what I believe.
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