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Posted on 09/02/2017 7:03:37 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
About half of Protestants in the U.S. now agree with the "historically Catholic belief" that both faith and good deeds are needed for salvation, rather than faith alone, a Pew Research Center survey shows.
White Evangelicals stood out as the strongest believers in faith alone, however.
Pew, which released the survey to mark the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, explored different questions, though one of the main focuses was on the requirements for salvation.
Fifty-two percent of U.S. Protestants said both good deeds and faith in God are needed to get into heaven; 46 percent said faith alone (sola fide) is needed. Among Catholics, 81 percent agreed that both good deeds and faith are necessary. Meanwhile, two-thirds of white evangelicals said they believe faith alone is needed for salvation.
(Catholics argue that "faith and works" is a misleading oversimplification of their beliefs.)
Protestants were similarly split on the Reformation principle of sola scriptura (which means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian), with 46 percent saying the Bible provides all the religious guidance Christians need and 52 percent saying Christians need guidance from church teachings and traditions in addition to the Bible. Among white evangelicals, nearly 60 percent agreed with the principle of sola sciptura.
Overall, only 30 percent of Protestants, 7 percent of Catholics and 44 percent of white evangelicals believe in both sola fide and sola scriptura.
The data for the poll was collected between May 30 and August 9, sampling 5,198 respondents, with the questions split in two forms. Pew noted that the margin of sampling error for both halves of respondents was plus or minus 2.9 percentage points.
Some respondents were asked to answer the question of what is needed to get into heaven in their own words. Common responses to this open-ended question included belief in Jesus and being born again (32 percent); being a good person, moral values and doing good works (19 percent of all Christians); repentance and asking forgiveness for sins (12 percent); and belief in God (11 percent).
In other findings, Christians were largely split on the topic of purgatory, which some believe to be a place where souls go to be cleansed of their sins before they can enter Heaven.
Overall, 54 percent of U.S. Christians rejected the existence of such a place, while 33 percent said that they believed in it. White evangelicals were most likely to say it is a false belief, with 72 percent rejecting it. Catholics found themselves at the opposite end of the scale, with 70 percent stating that purgatory is a real place. While a majority (65 percent) of Protestants overall said purgatory does not exist, black Protestants were split on the belief, with 47 percent saying it exists and 48 percent saying it doesn't.
Notably, a majority of U.S. adults were familiar with the Reformation as the time Protestants broke away from the Catholic Church and correctly named Martin Luther as the person who inspired it.
Protestants this year are commemorating the 500th anniversary of the Reformation when Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of All Saints Church in Wittenberg, Germany on Oct. 31, 1517.
According to Ligonier Ministries, while the Reformation is largely described as a movement that revolved around sola fide and sola scriptura, "the 'protest' of Protestantism went far beyond the issue of justification by faith alone, challenging many dogmas that emerged in Rome, especially during the Middle Ages."
Pew noted, "[T]he issues at the heart of the Reformation were not merely doctrinal. Disputes also arose over religious practices, ecclesiastical structures, the sale of indulgences, the expensive construction of St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, and more. Political and other factors also played an important role."
The Reformation swept through Germany in the 16th century, spread throughout Europe and then to the new world.
Sure; why not?
"If you do a good work TO RECEIVE A reward" is an entirely different animal.
So should us Prots!
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And?
Read the rest of the passage.
“16 Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17 The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18 Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19 The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
I never hear any mention of eternal damnation, only that the kingdom has been torn away from him and his family, as was promised.
Bizarrely enough, I’m not a Calvinist on this topic, and I’m closer to your views in this debate that I butt into.
But Saul is a bad example when discussing salvation.
I would argue that even a comatose person can exercise saving faith, because faith is a gift from God, not a work that requires human will.
But that’s beside the point at the moment.
The question I was trying to ask is this: If a Catholic believes that they can earn salvation through good works, does that really make the works ‘good’? Or are they being done out of self-centeredness?
It is just as important to look at the context of the passage. 1 Corinthians 9 is talking about preaching the gospel and how to preach it. To the Jews Paul became as a Jew. To the Gentile, Paul became as a Gentile. He is striving for the gospel sake and encourages the Corinthians to follow his example. Now what makes more sense in the context of the chapter:
-or-
"I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should not be worthy of my calling. "
BTW-It brings discredit on our Lord Jesus to think that we have to maintain our salvation. He is the keeper of our souls, the bearer of our good works, and our Great Shepherd. To think that one can lose their salvation is nothing more than admitting that our works save us which totally contradicts John 1:12-13.
For many are called, but few are chosen” (Matt. 22:14).
Read the wedding feast Matthew 22.
Then you may understand that many were called but they rejected Jesus. I believe that we are all called to hear the good news of the Gospel and be baptized. We can follow the path of Jesus and His Church or be led astray.
What do you call sin other than the rejection of God?
Not believing or only partially believing is the rejection of God.
Yup.
adokimos: failing to pass the test Original Word: ἀδόκιμος, ον Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: adokimos Phonetic Spelling: (ad-ok'-ee-mos) Short Definition: failing to pass the test Definition: failing to pass the test, unapproved, counterfeit.
Englishman's Concordance Strong's Greek: 96. ἀδόκιμος (adokimos) — 8 Occurrences Romans 1:28 Adj-AMS GRK: θεὸς εἰς ἀδόκιμον νοῦν ποιεῖν NAS: gave them over to a depraved mind, KJV: over to a reprobate mind, to do INT: God to a depraved mind to do 1 Corinthians 9:27 Adj-NMS GRK: κηρύξας αὐτὸς ἀδόκιμος γένωμαι NAS: I myself will not be disqualified. KJV: I myself should be a castaway. INT: having preached myself rejected I might be 2 Corinthians 13:5 Adj-NMP GRK: εἰ μήτι ἀδόκιμοί ἐστε NAS: is in you -- unless indeed you fail the test? INT: if not rejected you are 2 Corinthians 13:6 Adj-NMP GRK: οὐκ ἐσμὲν ἀδόκιμοι NAS: do not fail the test. KJV: are not reprobates. INT: not are rejected 2 Corinthians 13:7 Adj-NMP GRK: δὲ ὡς ἀδόκιμοι ὦμεν NAS: though we may appear unapproved. KJV: be as reprobates. INT: however as rejected be 2 Timothy 3:8 Adj-NMP GRK: τὸν νοῦν ἀδόκιμοι περὶ τὴν NAS: mind, rejected in regard KJV: minds, reprobate concerning INT: in mind found worthless as regards the Titus 1:16 Adj-NMP GRK: ἔργον ἀγαθὸν ἀδόκιμοι NAS: and disobedient and worthless for any KJV: good work reprobate. INT: work good found worthless Hebrews 6:8 Adj-NMS GRK: καὶ τριβόλους ἀδόκιμος καὶ κατάρας NAS: and thistles, it is worthless and close KJV: briers [is] rejected, and INT: and thistles [is] rejected and a curse
The Scriptures call for man to make a conscious choice, which comatose people do not, and " faith is a gift from God, not a work that requires human will" is a false dilemma, for faith being a gift is not opposed to man volitionally believing on Christ as a result,with the whole conversation events being of grace.There is no meriting/earning by man choosing to do what God both enabled and motivated him to do, opening his heart, convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment, and granting repentance, and giving faith.
But that’s beside the point at the moment. The question I was trying to ask is this: If a Catholic believes that they can earn salvation through good works, does that really make the works ‘good’? Or are they being done out of self-centeredness?
The works may be objectively good in and of themselves: "works of righteousness which we have done," (Titus 3:5) such as getting married versus fornication, or otherwise doing by nature the things contained in the law (Romans 2:14) as God gives grace, but salvifically they are as filthy rags apart from faith, not able to make one actually righteous so as to be with God.
If a Catholic believes that they can earn salvation through good works (which they deny) then they will sadly find out that the only thing they have earned is eternal punishment, according to the light they had.
The Scriptures call for man to make a conscious choice, which comatose people do not, and “ faith is a gift from God, not a work that requires human will” is a false dilemma, for faith being a gift is not opposed to man volitionally believing on Christ as a result,with the whole conversation events being of grace.There is no meriting/earning by man choosing to do what God both enabled and motivated him to do, opening his heart, convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment, and granting repentance, and giving faith.
***
Are you saying that it’s within man’s power to choose to believe in Christ? Or not? Are you saying that we are to despair if someone doesn’t have the facilities to choose Jesus?
I’m not trying to be snarky; I really don’t get what you’re trying to say.
I’m off on vacation for the next two weeks but I will just say your posts are simply proof Catholics believe 1) a person can lose their salvation, and 2) a person must do works to maintain their salvation. Both are in error and are not according to the traditions laid down by the early church fathers. They are semi-Pelagius in their teachings which is heresy and was condemned by the Church-at least what used to be the Church. They will not save you.
This is where “free will” leads you.
BTW-I would also strongly suggest investing in a good commentary or a study of systematic theology like John Calvin or Charles Hodge.
That's IT?
Why did Jesus fail to mention these two steps when we was asked directly:
25 When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
I'd leave this in the Hands of GOD; and not try to figure out what HE would do here; since by the time we would KNOW the answer; the game will be over.
This should not be so hard: No one has the power to believe unless God grants that to them, and which enables them to repent/believe as commanded, (Acts 11:18) versus man being a passive, even unconscious object in conversion.
No sinner ever woke up converted in Scripture, as instead all believers were enabled and moved by God to choose to believe on the risen Lord Jesus to save them as damned and destitute sinners.
But certainly people must have God-given power to choose to believe in Christ, otherwise the multitudinous calls to people to repent and believe are merely rhetorical.
As taught in the wedding feast.
Many were called, but few accepted.
Just like Jesus calls us to the Gospel and baptism.
However, we all have free will to either accept or reject.
We all have the ability to believe or not by our actions. Just because someone says that they believe, they may not have true faith in God if they do not follow the will of God and accept Jesus as the Bread of Life.
It does take an act (good work) to accept by faith and believe in Jesus and continued acts to receive God’s graces and be with Him.
As you stated in the Gospel passage: “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.”
So one of the actions that Jesus told us to do was to eat and drink His Body and Blood in the Eucharist. He then said directly to them “and you still do not believe.”
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