Catholic Word of the Day: INTRINSIC GOODNESS, 08-20-09

I believe that most FReepers possess a deep sense of intrinsic goodness in their hearts, however, sometimes it doesn't make it into their words.

(A little bit of irony there?)

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Restitution	Tabgha	Our Lady of Divine Love
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Cleopas	Imputation	Solemn Profession
Intrinsic Goodness

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Mankind does NOT have intrinsic good.

Not only “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God”, but even bigger:

Romans 3:10-12 “as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.””

La Salette	Liturgy	Andacollo
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Founder	Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples	Vow
Impassibility	Vitandus	Dedication of the Months
Solemn Vows	Species	Dark Night of the Soul
Social Sin	Dialectical Materialism	Pharisaical Scandal
Inquisition	Precedence	Holy Chrism
Quietism	Natural Family Planning (practice)	Primitive Religion
Cleopas	Inputation	Solemn Profession
Intrinsic Goodness

I disagree. God created the world and for the first days said, “This is good.”

Then he created man and said, “This is VERY good.”

Of course, you and I both know that man and woman did sin, so I believe that is what you are talking about. Is that correct?

Nevertheless, what God created IS good. We are victims of our own sins, are we not?

What do you make out of the statement “none are righteous, no not one”? Righteous would be another term for “good” in God’s eyes.

Intrinsic here, IMHO, has to do with the inherent quality of the action - all other conditions be equal. I.e., without regard to the person, their sin, nature, etc. etc., the act or thing being considered has an inherent value.

“Love of God” has inherent value. Of itself without consideration of any other conditions.

Is that from the Bible? Or your own quote?

None of us are righteous when compared to Jesus Christ; we must all strive to overcome sin.

**Intrinsic here, IMHO, has to do with the inherent quality of the action **

To me, the intrinsic in this goodness is a direct gift of God at our Creation.

So I guess we differ on that. Of course, the original sin, (and all other sins for an adult) are wiped away and forgotten with the Sacrament of Baptism.

So is a person “righteous” in your words, right after Baptism?

BTW, good discussion.

"washed away with the Sacrament of Baptism" We are a long ways apart in theology! I'll get back to you sometime.

It’s all about the text - (Acts 2:38) is one of the most misunderstood, and mis-translated scriptures I know of. Greek is a funny language. It is so much more descriptive than English - one word can mean a phrase in English, and can convey tense and person in ways that English only wishes it could. Further, Greek grammar rules are far different from English grammar - and thus must be taken into account to get what the writer meant.

That being said - The verb translated as “repent” is 2nd person plural. That translated “be baptized” is 3rd person plural.

So - in context is says “It says “be baptized, every one of you.” The personal pronoun for “you” is also 2nd person, plural. Therefore, the target for the command to repent and the command to be baptized is different, sort of. Gramatically, I don’t think the baptism can be tied to the remission of sins.

It is almost like Peter was saying “repent for the remission of sins, and when you do - get baptized.” Otherwise, this would conflict with what John the Baptist said when he was baptizing and the Pharisees and Sadducees came asking about baptism, John clearly indicates that it is a sign of the repentance.

And besides - did Jesus need to be “washed of His sins”? Of course not, it was a sign of Christ’s new direction - His public ministry was beginning.

But back to “intrinsic goodness” - The scriptures are quite clear - God must take away our old corrupt and sin-hardened heart, and give us a new heart to enable us to accept His salvation. (Ezekiel 36:26).

Mankind is utterly corrupt and unable to do anything about that sin apart from the Grace of God. HE must initiate salvation by regeneration to put us in a condition to even be drawn to HIM.