Cardinals, Bishops, Theologians and Lay Apologists Speak-up for Marian Coredemption

AirMaria.com ^

[Friar Roderic Mary]

Ave Maria!

Recent initiatives in support of the Dogmatic Declaration of Marian Coredemption are springing up like May flowers in this Month of Mary and are the fruit of many years of dialogue and theological discussion organized by the Hierarchy, the Franciscans of the Immaculate, and Vox Popoli Mariae Mediatrici. This movement is supported by a wide range of theologians and lay people, and the initiatives have five main thrusts: Hierarchical, Theological, Popular Apologetical, a Video Series on the internet, and a Lay Petition drive.

Hierarchical:

A symposium was held on May 3rd to the 7th, 2005 in Fatima, Portugal, led by five Cardinals which the Franciscans of the Immaculate helped arrange. The gathering of over fifty bishops from around the world, including five cardinals, resulted in a book written by the nine cardinals listed bellow.

Toppo	Martinez	Gagnon	Estevez	Schonborn
Varkey	Vidal	Spidlik	Trujillo

Mary, Unique Cooperator in the Redemption Why Mary should be dogmatically declared as Coredeemer Authored by: Nine Cardinals of the Church and other Major Marian Theologians. Each of the nineteen presentations are printed in the language originally given by the speakers: seven in English, four in Spanish and eight in Italian. It addresses many of the ecumenical concerns raised in the past.

This book along with a petition by over forty Cardinals and Bishops in support of the dogma was presented to Pope Benedict XVI on June 3, 2006, by... His Eminence, Telesphore Cardinal Toppo of Ranchi, India

Theological Symposia:

Here are just some of more than 60 Marian Theologians that have attended past International Coredemption Symposia in England and Fatima, Portugal, between 2000 and 2006:

Calkins	Llamas	Arellano	Manelli	Fehlner	Hnilica
Miravalle	Perotto	Hauke	Settimio Manelli	Gherardini	Biestro

These symposia resulted in the following 6 books available from Marymedatrix.com with a 7th book on the way:

2000	2001	2002	2003	2004	2005

And, the 8th International Symposium in this series is coming up in July 17-20, 2007 in Fatima, Portugal. See Video

With over 10 Cardinals, 40 Bishops and 60 major Marian Theologians, these events clearly out-weigh the 1996 Czestachowa Commission which came to a negative conclusion but had serious deficiencies and no hierarchy in attendance.

Popular Conference:

Upcoming Marian Coredemption Conference in Greenwood, Indiana, Oct 13, 2007. See Video

Hahn	Miravalle	Fehlner	Burke
Evert	de Souza	Straub

Upcoming Video Series:

Stay tuned to Air Maria for Dr. Miravalle's new Series on Coredemption in June.

Miravalle

Petition Drive:

an initiative by Dr. Mark Miravalle at Vox Popoli for a popular petition to Pope Benedict XVI. Let your voice be heard!!

You can read the letter by Mark Miravalle about how you can submit your petition to the Holy Father and how these Bishops and Cardinals have already done so. What the pope is saying about Mary

The Saints:

Mary is our Co-redemptrix with Jesus. She gave Jesus his body and suffered with him at the foot of the Cross.

Mary is the Mediatrix of all grace. She gave Jesus to us, and as our Mother she obtains for us all his graces.

Mary is our Advocate who prays to Jesus for us. It is only through the Heart of Mary that we come to the Eucharistic Heart of Jesus.

The papal definition of Mary as Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate will bring great graces to the Church.

All for Jesus through Mary.

God bless you,

M. Teresa, M.C.

Letter of Endorsement for the Papal Definition of Mary Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate , Mother Teresa of Calcutta, August 14, 1993.

Read what 20th Century Saints and Blesseds have to say about this doctrine in this Hagiography compiled by Fr. Stefano Manelli, founder of the Franciscans of the Immaculate.

Saints:

Gemma Galgani	Pope Pius X	Frances Xavier Cabrini	Pio of Pietrelcina	Leopold Mandic	Maximilian Mary Kolbe
Josemaria Escrivà	Edith Stein

Blesseds:

Elizabeth of the Trinity	Bartolo Longo	Luigi Orione	James Alberione	Ildephonse Cardinal Schuster

And, finally, read what many others are saying.

Mother Mary, in our troubled times may we have the grace to call you Coredeemer, Mediatrix and Advocate!

Ave Maria!

[Antoninus]

I find myself agreeing with you on this. The concept of "coredemtrix" has always caused red flags to go up for me. I have great difficulty defending the idea, so I generally ignore it. The theology behind it is far from convincing.

There have always been bishops, clerics, and theologians out there with theological innovations. Generally, I have no problem with the Church allowing some latitude in personal piety. I certainly have no problem with devotion to the Blessed Mother. That said, I am glad the Pope hasn't attempted to dogmatically define this title for Mary as I think it goes way beyond Scripture, and beyond Tradition.

I'll continue to pray over it, though.

[Maeve]

The "Coredemption" Express has certainly left the station because of the anti-Marian heresies all over the place within the Latin Church and also because of rising esteem for the promise of the Marian apparation to Ida Peerdeman that with such a declaration graces would follow that would derail an oncoming global calamity.

Perhaps with Russia increasingly up to old tricks (What? You mean we have to respect the UK's air space?)and the Holy See refusing to revisit the question of the Fatima consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, some of these folks have come to see responding to the call of the Lady of All Nations for the new dogmatic declaration as a last chance before "sudden destruction".

[Maeve]

There are fundamental problems in the technical expressions used in some of the Marian dogmatic declarations.

What is needed is not this new dogma added to what has already been created by the ex cathedra declarations of Popes but rather an entirely comprehensive dogmatic constitution of the Church concerning Our Most Holy Lady Mary, the God-bearer. This could be a very effective vehicle especially with Light from the East, so to speak, by including and drawing from the wisdom of the Eastern Catholic churches concerning the Blessed Mother of God as well as the Orthodox East and those voices from the Fathers important to both West and East. I am only lightly sketching what I think might be done in this regard with this post.

[kosta50]

One wonders what compels some Latins to press for not simply the toleration of this rather unpatristic notion, but indeed to dogmatize it

Indeed. Well said, Kolo.

[kosta50]

I believe BXVI has already rejected this. The concept is theologically fuzzy, not traditional, and should not go any further

If he did that's good. I can honestly say I would expect that from +BXVI, who is a top-notch theologian and patristic at that.

[Antoninus]

The "Coredemption" Express has certainly left the station because of the anti-Marian heresies all over the place within the Latin Church and also because of rising esteem for the promise of the Marian apparation to Ida Peerdeman that with such a declaration graces would follow that would derail an oncoming global calamity.

Those kinds of reasons are far from convincing to me. I've never heard of the apparitions to Ida Peerdeman. Has the Church ruled on the validity of these apparitions? It strikes me as very unusual that Mary would ask for new and higher titles. Definitely out of keeping with the humility of the BVM throughout history. Seeking to be exalted to the level of God is the territory of a different kind of spirit, altogether.

As I said, I'll continue to pray about it.

[kosta50]

why did the gap not get bridged in the 800 years prior to the definition of the Immaculate Conception?

For one, the mutual anathemas of 1054 between the Bishop of Rome and Constantinople (which were "relegated to oblivion" in 1964, after 910 years). Except for Purgatory, the other issues were doctrinal and not dogmatic. And the issue of Purgatory has a to to do with the western phronema (or mindset) than anything esle. once stripped of the legalistic notions, the dogma becomes less unbridgeable.

Once the 19th century brought forth two new dogmas, evrything else paled compared to them. and a crack became a canyon.

PS I hope you don't mind that I pinged the other two Orthodox on this thread.

[Salvation]

**Coredemptrix - Latin for the woman with the redeemer.**

You have the correct translation. BTTT!

[Salvation]

**Coredemptrix - Latin for the woman with the redeemer.**

It means that Christ is the supreme person with the graces and the salvation.

The way, the truth and the life.

[kawaii]

If this century produces Mary the Co-redemptrix dogma, that will put the last nail in the coffin of fulfilling Christ's commandment of a united Church.
that's simply not so. Christ founded one church and one church there is. It may seal the deal that 'Catholics' are no longer a part of it. But it will not change that Christ found ONE church and that church is still united. especially with the rocor mp reunion all REALY orthodox jurisdictions are in communion by proxy.

[kosta50]

that's simply not so. Christ founded one church and one church there is. It may seal the deal that 'Catholics' are no longer a part of it

Of course they are part of it! They never stopped being part of it. Orthodox Bishops stopped communing with the those bishops who commune with the Bishop of Rome because of theological disagreements, but he is still a valid Bishop!

Once bishops no longer agree on theology, they cannot commune with each other. Communion is a sing of unity, not a means of attaining one.

Disagreement does not invalidate Holy Orders. If the Holy Mysteries are the kept, as is the case in both Churches, then that bishop can consecrate priests and three bishops can consecrate another bishop.

The reason why Anglican orders are not recognized in the East and the West is because their sacraments (mysteries) are deficient, so while their original bishops, if any, were valid bishops, they could not consecrate valid clergy to replace the existing ones, and that broke the Apostolic Succession of the Anglicans, as well as other Protestants.

[Friar Roderic Mary]

Ave Maria!

No problem with the pinging. The more the merrier. My point with the 800 years is that it really was not so bridgeable. If the issues were truly so bridgeable before the Immaculate Conception Dogma then why was it not resolved in the long 800 years prior to it. It is an awfully long time for such an “bridgeable” gap to remain unfilled. The conclusion then is that it was, in fact, very unbridgeable as the time attests and completely independent of the Immaculate Conception. Again, it is the jurisdictional squabbles that are the driving force here not doctrine. At least that’s how I see it.

Ave Maria!

Fra Roderic

[Friar Roderic Mary]

Ave Maria!

Thanks, kosta50, for clearing up that one.

[baa39]

Queen of Heaven rejoice, alleluia: For He whom you merited to bear, alleluia, Has risen as He said, alleluia. Pray for us to God, alleluia.

V. Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary, alleluia.
R. Because the Lord is truly risen, alleluia.

O God, who by the Resurrection of Thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, granted joy to the whole world: grant we beg Thee, that through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, His Mother, we may lay hold of the joys of eternal life. Through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.

AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.

SALVE REGINA, Mater misericordiae. Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve. Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te Suspiramus, gementes et flentes in hac lacrimarum valle. Eia ergo, Advocata nostra, illos tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte. Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende. O clemens, o pia, o dulcis Virgo Maria.

[Friar Roderic Mary]

Ave Maria!

...anathema if they should begin to preach another Gospel, introducing some new teaching.” +Maximos the Confessor

Yes, I agree with this! The question, though, is whether this is really a new doctrine? Again, we are simply saying that Mary participates in a unique way in the redemption. This is in a greater degree than any other creature but not equal to God. No blasphemy here. Nothing too radical. Maybe a development of old doctrine, but not "another Gospel."

And an innovation, a particularly strange one at that, it is.

and from and earlier post

Just as a matter of curiosity, what heresy or problem would a “Coredemptrix” dogma address? If none, what is the point of such a dogma?

Again, I am not the theologian but this is such an important question and I am always willing to boldly tread where angels stop in dread. So I will add my two cents : )

Certainly we seem to agree that Marian Doctrines have effectively addressed heresies in the past e.g. Theotokos, the God bearer as others have already commented. This effectively squashed the Nestorian heresy because if she bore a divine person then Jesus is one person and that person is divine, as opposed to the Nestorian concept that said he was two persons, a divine person somehow attached to a human person and only the human person was born by Mary.

Similarly, the Immaculate Conception effectively addressed both the Protestants who despaired of ever being able to receive actual grace and the Humanists who were rather complacent in this regard. The Immaculate Conception Dogma restored hope to the Protestants (and the Protestant leaning Jansensist in the Catholic Church) because it says human nature is not necessarily fallen, at least not in this one case, and so it is at least possible for a pure creature to actually be elevated by grace after the fall and be actually sanctified instead of merely being declared innocent, a la Luther. And in regard to the humanists it said, yes, it is possible to conquer fallen nature, but only one pure creature was conceived immaculately. The rest of us have to work at it!!

And finally, the dogma of the Coredemption addresses the issue of the importance of suffering, its redeeming value. That we are all called to be coredeemers with Christ and with Mary as the pure creature who is our exemplar. And just as she won the role by having her heart pierced (Prophecy of Simeon Luke 2) suffering in union with Christ at the crucifixion so we must participate by offering up our suffering in union with Christ's suffering.

What good does this do for the Church today? Well, what is the chief heresy in the world today? Hedonism with all its vices, contraception, abortion, euthenasia... The only sin in the modern mind is to suffer and suffering is the worst of all scandals. Thus the root of all of our moral problems in the modern world (and, no doubt, most of our physical problems) is this headlong rush away from suffering. If anyone can remedy this massive problem it is Our Lady the Coredeemer.

I must say though that all these reasonings are pretty much my own speculation, simply the fruit of meditation. I simply do not read enough to have any kind of certainty about them. I leave it up to others to correct me. But as you can see I love talking about them. : )

Ave Maria!!

[Friar Roderic Mary]

Ave Maria!!

Also, one further point, the Marian dogmas of the west are highly linked to the Christology of John Duns Scotus of which the doctrine of the Absolute Primacy of Christ is central. It says that Christ the God-man would have come whether Adam sinned or not and that the Incarnation is in fact the very reason for creation so that there would be a human nature for God to unite himself to. This is also called the Franciscan thesis and it is the Franciscans who promoted the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, starting with ... Scotus. Thus, the Franciscan exaltation of Mary is merely the recognition that if Christ was the Primary thought of God in regard to creation then Mary would naturally be the second since she is the immediate creaturely instrument of bringing about the Incarnation.

This basis for the Marian dogmas offers some alleviation to the ecumenical concerns. In regard to the Protestant objection that focusing on Mary detracts form Jesus, it must be said that the Franciscan thesis upon which these doctrines are based are the most Christocentric position possible, bar none, including any Protestant Christology!! Any step away from Scotus' doctrine is a step away from the highest possible Christocentrism. Thus Marian-centric dogmas are fully compatible with Christo-centric dogmas, in fact, symbiotic.

In regard to the Eastern Orthodoxy, it is actually the Eastern Fathers that were stronger on this than the western (citation needed). St Augustine explicitly denied that Christ would have come if Adam had not sinned.

If you want to know more about the Absolute Primacy of Christ it is being discussed in great detail in the video series by Fr. Maximilian at Airmaria.com and in his book, available there. And it is very interesting indeed!! Especially the Biblical stuff.

Now I am going to bed!!!!

Oh, ... and the full Dogma as it is being proposed is not just Mary Coredemptrix but Coredemptrix, Mediatrix (of all Graces) and Advocate. But, I will let someone else deal with that.

I just have to get this stuff out to give everyone plenty to yell at me about while I sleep in tomorrow.

Happy Solemnity of the Ascension!! (Holy day of obligation in some(??) diocese...)

BTW when is Ascension in the Eastern Orthodox Church this year?

Now I am really going to sleep, . . . really! Thanks for your patience, Kolokotronis.

Mary Coredemtrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for me!!!

Ave Maria!

[Kolokotronis]

“What is the Orthodox view of the role of Mary, and how does it differ from that of the Catholics and the Protestants?”

The way we pray and what we pray demonstrates what we believe. If you read this link to the Akathist Hymn you’ll see pretty much what Orthodoxy believes concerning the Most Holy Theotokos.

http://www.monachos.net/library/Akathist_Hymn_to_Our_Most_Holy_Lady_Mother_of_God_(Theotokos)

This little chant from the Divine Liturgy also shows what we believe.

“It is truly right to bless you, Theotokos, ever blessed, most pure, and mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, without corruption you gave birth to God the Word. We magnify you, the true Theotokos.”

Our Mariology differs so much from that of the Protestants, well at least most of them, that it would take up far too much bandwidth to discuss it in a single post. Several years of discussing Mariology on FR have convinced me that Mariology just isn’t for Protestants. As for the Latins, well our Mariology is virtually identical to theirs, though perhaps without the popular “enthusiasm” (in the religious sense of the word)and apocolyptic aura surrounding what they call warnings but look for all the world to many of us like threats. Dogmatically, Orthodoxy does not accept the Immaculate Conception as usually expressed, but this is because we do not hold by the Western notion of Original Sin. We also have not dogmatized the bodily assumption of Panagia into heaven, though every Orthodox I know of believes it to be true.

FRM, I will try to respond to your various posts today, but it likely will be tomorrow night before I can give them the attention they deserve. I’m in the middle of a major case and the next two days will be taken up with that matter.

[xzins]

Anyone who toys with the idea of Mary being coredemptrix is flirting with heresy.

It’s that simple.

[Andrew Byler]

also because of rising esteem for the promise of the Marian apparation to Ida Peerdeman that with such a declaration graces would follow that would derail an oncoming global calamity.

If you'd really stop to think about it, you'd realize this idea is quite silly - namely that the hand of God will only be moved to our benefit by our puny actions in declaring new dogmas. I can't see how such a notion squares with the Bible.

"Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they? ... For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things. Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you." (St. Matthew 6.26, 32-33)

these folks have come to see responding to the call of the Lady of All Nations for the new dogmatic declaration as a last chance before "sudden destruction".

This is especially ridiculous. There is not a shread of evidence from the Bible that God is going to allow our destruction. This is speculative dispensationalist heresy run amok in the Catholic Church.

[Claud]

Seeking to be exalted to the level of God is the territory of a different kind of spirit, altogether.

I have heard that part of the problem is that Latin "co-" does not have the connotations of equality that English "co-" as in co-pilot, co-conspirator. Co-redemptrix simply means--so I have heard--one who participates in redemption, which could be said of all of us. Anyway, that's what I heard...not that I buy it necessarily.

I don't much care for this definition either...but I'll take a wait and see tack.