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Posted on 05/16/2007 1:51:59 PM PDT by Friar Roderic Mary
Welcome to Free Republic! Your first post, and it's a well-formatted thread! I assume you've registered here before?
Ah yes. Marian coredemption.
The name however is misleading, making Mary co equal to Jesus. So unless they change the name, one doubts it will be passed.
The doctrine means that Mary as the first Christian and ineed all Christians are co partners in redeeming the world by our “yes” to God.
The biblical reference is in Paul, but I can’t find it right now...something about talking about his sufferings and how they help complete Christ’s redemptions.
The biblical reference is in Paul, but I can’t find it right now...something about talking about his sufferings and how they help complete Christ’s redemptions."Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church." Col 1:24 (NIV)
Catholic Ping List
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list
Thanks, Alex! I’m glad you like the formatting, it took me for ever :)
Ave Maria!
Fra Roderic
Our Lady of the Greenwood is MY parish!!! I am SO excited!
With all due respect, I doubt you’ll see any dogmatic declarations coming out of Rome for the foreseeable future that could in any way adversely impact on the dialog between Rome and the Orthodox Churches. This one likely would. Assuming we can resolve the proper exercise of the Petrine Ministry, we will have quite enough to deal with discussing in a new Ecumenical Council Rome’s post 7th Ecumenical Council dogmas without adding more divisive issues.
Just as a matter of curiosity, what heresy or problem would a “Coredemptrix” dogma address? If none, what is the point of such a dogma?
Mary, Mediatrix of all graces, help of Christians, pray for us.
Apparently, some are not at all concerned about ruining sincere efforts at re-uniting the Church, but are pressing forward with more innovations.
What most people don't realize is that had it not been for two 19th century dogmas, the Immaculate Conception and Papal Infallibility, the Church would probably have been re-united by now!
So, the real, almost unbridgeable rift did not exist until the 19th century. If this century produces Mary the Co-redemptrix dogma, that will put the last nail in the coffin of fulfilling Christ's commandment of a united Church.
Coredemptrix - Latin for the woman with the redeemer.
Roman Catholic tradition BTTT
Mary reigns! Mary rules! Mary conquers!
Mary reigns as Queen of Heaven!
Mary rules through her Immaculate Heart!
Mary conquers as the Immaculate Conception crushing the serpent!
Mary is SALVATRIX!!!
Co-Redemptrix + Mediatrix of All Graces = Salvatrix
Very nice, thanks.
“...but are pressing forward with more innovations.”
And an innovation, a particularly strange one at that, it is. One wonders what compels some Latins to press for not simply the toleration of this rather unpatristic notion, but indeed to dogmatize it. The position of the Most Holy Theotokos within The Church and hearts of the faithful is secure and has been for at least 1700 years, likely rather longer. The expression of that veneration and love in the Akathist Hymn seems to me quite sufficient, as it has been since +Romanos the Melodist penned it in the late 5th, early 6th century and in the kontakia, apolytikia, troparia and Divine Liturgies of The Church since the 4th century. The Mariology of The Church is clear. For the life of me I can see little purpose behind this activity unless it is to derail reunion with Orthodoxy.
“...I know from the writings of the holy Apostle Paul: the Holy Spirit declares that even the angels would be anathema if they should begin to preach another Gospel, introducing some new teaching.” +Maximos the Confessor
What is the Orthodox view of the role of Mary, and how does it differ from that of the Catholics and the Protestants?
I believe BXVI has already rejected this. The concept is theologically fuzzy, not traditional, and should not go any further.
You mean Coredemptrix or Mediatrix?
Good to here from the Eastern Orthodox. In regard to the unbridgeable gap not existing until the 18th century, why did the gap not get bridged in the 800 years prior to the definition of the Immaculate Conception? I think Our Lady is the common ground between the East and the West. Perhaps honoring her with this dogma is something we can get together on.
Ave Maria!
I am certainly no theologian. In fact, I am a seminary drop-out, but I will, for the sake of discussion, add my two cents. I am very interested in seeing the East and West be reunited. I am a Protestant convert and see unity as very important and especially as a sign for the non believers to see that Christ is sent by the Father, John 17 et al. Perhaps there is already to much to deal with doctrinally but this is the point, the primary issue between the east and the west is jurisdictional, as you point out in your comment.
Sure there is the Photian based spat over the Philioque and, yes, the Immaculate Conception, but most of the anger surrounding these hinges on the fact that the Pope declared these things with little or no agreement or dialog with the East. Sure there are some modern dyed-in-the-wool Photians among the Easter Orthodox theologians (Losski and Clement to name two) but there are also some theological giants, some of your best Fathers of the East such as St. Epipiphius St. Cyril or Alexandria who are in agreement with the Philogue. As such, i think the greatest part of the battle is a question of authority.
And, I can understand the difficulty in regard to authority. There are sins on both sides. However, we need help from Our Lady. We have already waited almost 1000 years to resolve this split, but we need Our Lady’s help NOW. By all indications this is Satan’s hour for battle (the big battle) and to be able to do battle with him we must be fully sons and daughters of Mary (Gen 3:15, Apoc 12:1ff) and so be brothers and sisters of Christ. And this doctrine of the Coredemption is a great way to honor our Mother. And if the devil is the great divider, turning us into deviled ham, if you will, then perhaps the first fruit of our battle with him will be the healing of the rift between east and west.
The majority of all Christians are in one single denomination. If we can’t proclaim Mary as Coredeemer as a fully united Church (which would, indeed, be preferable) should not the majority go ahead and do so as a second best plan? And do so for the sake of the whole Church?
At any rate, I believe once we resolve the juridical issues we can resolve all the doctrinal issues easily enough, be it the Philioque, the Immaculate Conception or even the Coredemption. After all, do you really disagree with the doctrine of the Coredemption? Isn’t it just saying that we all must take up our cross and follow Christ? That we are coredeemers with Christ? and Mary is our exemplar?
Your Brother in Christ and Mary,
Fra Roderic, Ave Maria!
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