Posted on 11/18/2006 5:08:06 PM PST by lrslattery
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. Amen.
(world without end....but we knew that already...)
Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.
now waiting for "consubstantial with the Father" as well
Praise Our Lord Jesus Christ!
Thank you for a wise Pope who continues little by little to restore the fullness of the Catholic faith to the liturgy
I wonder when this will get to the American bishops.
Okay. Whatever.
Now the question remains. Will our Bishops obey?
The "for all" was a theological translation (the same with 'Hell'), whereas the literal translation (like gehenna instead if Hell which was the Jerusalem garbage dump) was precise but not as clear theologically, unless you want the "many" to be exclusive of the number of the elect. Maybe you are not predestined? Nice thought.
Old election theology which sought to settle that which is above human reasoning (except for those who in their vanity think they are up to it and it's not mystery). Now we can say maybe the sacrifice is not intended for you, if you are not of the elected.
So I prefer the theological translation since Christ Died for Everyone, for ALL
1. For all (1 Timothy 2:6; Isaiah 53:6).
2. For every man and woman (Heb. 2:9).
3. For the whole world (John 3:16).
4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
7. For many (Matthew 20:28).
8. For Israel (John 11:50-51).
9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
10. For "me" (Gal. 2:20).
This is your third post on FR? I smell ozone.
They will accept it with grumbling--if the pope lives long enough. May he live to be a hundred.
It's sad that they are defying Vatican II.
I smell sulfur.
"Πίετε ἐξ αὐτοῦ πάντες, τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ αἷμά μου, τὸ τῆς Καινῆς Διαθήκης, τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν καὶ πολλῶν ἐκχυνόμενον, εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν."
From the 1700+ year old Orthodox Divine Liturgy at the consecration of the chalice, the Greek equivalent of pro multis and it most definitely means " for many".
God for the Pope. He'll get you guys back on track! :)
Now here's a piece of history you'll find interesting> "For many" is also the phrase used in the Divine Liturgy of +James, the most ancient of all extant Liturgies (Its used only in Jerusalem and I have heard once a year in some other places)and dates from as early as 60 AD. I'd say that "for many" has a pretty good pedigree.
No one is defying the Vatican over this yet, it hasn't even been put into the translation (1 to 2 years). Will they defy Rome, probably some will but I don't think this will be that much of a problem for most bishops in the United States.
No one is defying the Vatican over this yet, it hasn't even been put into the translation (1 to 2 years). Will they defy Rome, probably some will but I don't think this will be that much of a problem for most bishops in the United States.
Most of the liberal bishops in the US are not exactly scholars and I doubt it's going to make a big difference to them; it's easier for their priests just to read what's written (although I think some older liberal priests will probably be the ones who don't cooperate). Roger Dodger will probably publicly defy Rome, something he seems to do with impunity, alas.
Exactly, I doubt Bishop Gumbleton will be pleased here in Michigan! But Cardinal Maida will have no problem with it.
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