Posted on 07/04/2002 5:27:12 PM PDT by blam
Sunday, 30 June, 2002, 15:31 GMT 16:31 UK
English and Welsh are races apart
Gene scientists claim to have found proof that the Welsh are the "true" Britons.
The research supports the idea that Celtic Britain underwent a form of ethnic cleansing by Anglo-Saxons invaders following the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century.
Genetic tests show clear differences between the Welsh and English
It suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out, with Offa's Dyke acting as a "genetic barrier" protecting those on the Welsh side.
And the upheaval can be traced to this day through genetic differences between the English and the Welsh.
Academics at University College in London comparing a sample of men from the UK with those from an area of the Netherlands where the Anglo-Saxons are thought to have originated found the English subjects had genes that were almost identical.
But there were clear differences between the genetic make-up of Welsh people studied.
The research team studied the Y-chromosome, which is passed almost unchanged from father to son, and looked for certain genetic markers.
Ethnic links: Many races share common bonds
They chose seven market towns mentioned in the Domesday Book of 1086 and studied 313 male volunteers whose paternal grandfather had also lived in the area.
They then compared this with samples from Norway and with Friesland, now a northern province of the Netherlands.
The English and Frisians studied had almost identical genetic make-up but the English and Welsh were very different.
The researchers concluded the most likely explanation for this was a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion, which devastated the Celtic population of England, but did not reach Wales.
Dr Mark Thomas, of the Centre for Genetic Anthropology at UCL, said their findings suggested that a migration occurred within the last 2,500 years.
Genetic links
It reinforced the idea that the Welsh were the true indigenous Britons.
In April last year, research for a BBC programme on the Vikings revealed strong genetic links between the Welsh and Irish Celts and the Basques of northern Spain and south France.
It suggested a possible link between the Celts and Basques, dating back tens of thousands of years.
The UCL research into the more recent Anglo-Saxon period suggested a migration on a huge scale.
"It appears England is made up of an ethnic cleansing event from people coming across from the continent after the Romans left," he said.
Celtic Britons
Archaeologists after the Second World War rejected the traditionally held view that an Anglo-Saxon invasion pushed the indigenous Celtic Britons to the fringes of Britain.
Instead, they said the arrival of Anglo-Saxon culture could have come from trade or a small ruling elite.
But the latest research by the UCL team, "using genetics as a history book", appears to support the original view of a large-scale invasion of England.
It suggests that the Welsh border was more of a genetic barrier to the Anglo-Saxon Y chromosome gene flow than the North Sea.
Dr Thomas added: "Our findings completely overturn the modern view of the origins of the English."
Neither are the languages spoken by the Finns,the Hungarians,and the Mari. They are related to each other,but are also not related to the Basque language.
BTW,the Mari are the native people of a section of modern day Russia called the "Mari Republic". For lack of a better description,they are a tribe of "Russia's Indians."It's about 600 KM's from Moscow,and "Yoshkar-Ola" is the capital town. I've been there and visited the Mari National Museum,and it is a fascinating place. You would swear you are looking at Cherokee artifacts. The Mari even looked like Cherokees.
I think it is really fascinating that three seperate cultures that far apart could share a language base that is in no way related to any of the languages that surround them.
We had 28 Japanese engineers (they brought their families) visit our factory for about a year. We had a 'family day picnic' and everyone brought their kids. A mfg mgr friend of mine was an American Indian (don't know what tribe) and at the picnic he asked me if I could pick out his kids who were playing in a group of Japanese kids. I could not. He (as well as myself) was amazed at how closely they resembled each other.
Maybe this is why: The Zuni Enigma A good book, she makes a convincing case.
If you're into this stuff, read The Tarim Mummies by Mallory & Mair. It's about the Caucasian mummies found in the desert in east central China. (Powerful)
I'm not convinced that there ever was a king Arthur.
Also Estonian. Estonian language is almost the same as that of the Finnish.
I think there was but it was embelleshed as a legend. For example, there were no Knights in armor back in King Arthur's time. Plus Celtic kings weren't into that whole chivalry and knighthood thing. Most likely the real King Arthur was a celtic chieftan wearing animal hide garb who led a revolt against the intruding Saxons. Oh, and King Arthur probably smelled like hell.
His reputed death occurred at the same time some (Baillie, Bailey, Clube, etc) think a comet fragment plunged into the Celtic Sea and began the Dark Ages. (which was worldwide)
I'm sorry but I don't. The place to go to be saturated in the Norman Conquest, 1066 and all that is Britain (or France). However, I'm told they have now stopped teaching about 1066 in the British schools. Awwwkkk! Something about "dead white males"...
We know the Normans were VERY Celtic, from their Celtic Norse and Dansk roots, to the Celtic French women some of them married. They invaded the Celtic English who had just defeated other Celtic Norse near York. Two battles in so short a time was too much for the English.
One reason we "know" so little about the Celts in general is most everything we know in America is written in English, mostly in England! Most of us don't have access to the huge body of Celtic material written in French, German, and other European languages which take quite a different view of the exclusivity the English claim on THEIR Celts.
I'm not sure this is true. I have a friend who is a linguist and also a Mari,and she has told me it is only the three languages that are related. She is a university professor who has written a textbook on the Mari language,taught it in Finland,and given lectures on it at endangered languages conferences in Hungary. I'm pretty sure I will spell this wrong, but the three are desiginated as "Finno-Ugiric".
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Ireland (Eire) |
Scotland (Alba) |
Isle of Man (Mannin) |
Cornwall (Kernow) |
Wales (Cymru) |
Brittany (Breizh) |
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