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Vanity:Is the Health Care Bill a Bill of Attainder?
4/9/10 | GenXteacher

Posted on 04/09/2010 11:33:17 AM PDT by GenXteacher

My first vanity post, I guess. I'm not a lawyer- just a high school history teacher. But I had a thought the other day and I thought it worth sharing. A Bill of Attainder is a law that basically declares people guilty without benefit of due process- no judicial procedure. Does the health care bill not meet this criteria? It essentially authorizes a penalty without benefit of trial- the IRS apparently can fine you for not having health insurance, since Congress apparently sees fit to criminalize it. Anyone care to have any thoughts on this?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: billofattainder; constitution; healthcare; obamacare
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1 posted on 04/09/2010 11:33:18 AM PDT by GenXteacher
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To: GenXteacher

No.


2 posted on 04/09/2010 11:35:32 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: GenXteacher

Here is the problem. Once something is done that should not be done, it creates all sorts of issues.


3 posted on 04/09/2010 11:37:17 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: GenXteacher

Thank you for being “just” a History teacher. YOU have and important job.

On your question, this whole bill is riddled with constitutional issues that will take YEARS to litigate.


4 posted on 04/09/2010 11:38:41 AM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
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To: GenXteacher

I believe a bill of attainder is one where someone or some group is penalized after the fact.

With Obamacare, we’re pretty much being penalized up front (and on all fronts).


5 posted on 04/09/2010 11:39:03 AM PDT by green pastures (Cynicism-- it's not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: GenXteacher

Law?! We don’t need no stinking law!


6 posted on 04/09/2010 11:40:01 AM PDT by rae4palin (RESIST--REPEAL--IMPEACH)
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To: green pastures

Sounds like one is penalized for being born.


7 posted on 04/09/2010 11:41:04 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: green pastures

That is Ex Post Facto.

Bill of Attainder is guilt without trial.


8 posted on 04/09/2010 11:41:07 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: GenXteacher

Good point.

Add it to the list.


9 posted on 04/09/2010 11:41:19 AM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: green pastures
You're referring to an ex post facto law -- which is prohibited under the U.S. Constitution as it pertains to prosecutions prior to the passage of the law.

For example . . . If a government in the U.S. were to outlaw "X" tomorrow, it would be unable to prosecute anyone for doing "X" before the law was passed.

10 posted on 04/09/2010 11:42:55 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("Let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark.")
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To: Retired Greyhound
Bill of Attainder is guilt without trial.

Or a bill passed that singles out a person or group of people for punishment for actions declared illegal by the law.

11 posted on 04/09/2010 11:49:11 AM PDT by xkaydet65 (Never compromise with evil! Even in the face of Armageddon!! Rorshach)
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To: green pastures

“I believe a bill of attainder is one where someone or some group is penalized after the fact.”

Once upon a time, I was a civics teacher...I think that is an ex post facto law that you are thinking of.


12 posted on 04/09/2010 11:49:22 AM PDT by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: Retired Greyhound; Alberta's Child; GenXteacher
Yes, Retired Greyhound and Alberta's Child are right. BIN* moment. Thanks...

*BIN = Brain In Neutral
13 posted on 04/09/2010 11:52:14 AM PDT by green pastures (Cynicism-- it's not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: green pastures

LOL. Don’t be so hard on yourself . . . I’ll bet most people wouldn’t have known the difference. It’s easy to confuse a lot of those Constitutional terms!


14 posted on 04/09/2010 11:53:39 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("Let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark.")
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To: GenXteacher

And you’re right, too. Only I started posting my last one to you, RG and AC before I saw yours...


15 posted on 04/09/2010 11:54:59 AM PDT by green pastures (Cynicism-- it's not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: GenXteacher
It absolutely is. It imposes a fine for behavior the gov't finds objectionable. It tries to call the fine a "tax," but calling an apple a tomato doesn't make it one. It's a fine, imposed as a penalty, without due process of law.

And that's only one of its many unconstitutional aspects.

16 posted on 04/09/2010 12:14:04 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: GenXteacher

They don’t give a damn about the Constitution...................


17 posted on 04/09/2010 12:19:23 PM PDT by Red Badger (Education makes people easy to lead, difficult to drive; easy to govern, but impossible to enslave.)
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To: Campion
And that's only one of its many unconstitutional aspects. Of course, the healthcare bill makes a travesty of the Constitution.

The sad thing is that, if it got to SCOTUS tomorrow, we'd be dependent upon the tender mercies of Anthony Kennedy. What should be a 9-zip decision against the bill will be a 5-4 decision one way...or the other.

Thus, I am not thrilled at the prospect of the Supreme Court resolving the issue.

18 posted on 04/09/2010 12:25:12 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: Campion; GenXteacher

>>>It tries to call the fine a “tax,”<<<

And then it says in the bill (now law) that no tax called for in the bill will be considered a ‘tax’.... Huh????

Sure hope the SCOTUS has their heads screwed on straight when they wade into this.

This whole thing is like saying ‘for the purposes of this bill, all sick will be considered healed’.....

The frustration is almost overwhelming in trying to communicate with our elected officials now days... 70 years and I have never seen such nonsense!


19 posted on 04/09/2010 1:12:25 PM PDT by DelaWhere (Better to be prepared a year too early than a day too late.)
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To: GenXteacher

Off topic....since you are a history teacher. Did you see Beck last night? What are your thoughts on what we used to teach regarding the founders and the Constitution. I want to get the book “The signers of the Constitution” and learn more. We didnt learn that in school.


20 posted on 04/09/2010 3:05:55 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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