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The legal fiction that states can nullify US law persist in Texas
Austin American Statesman ^ | 2.6.2010 | Sanford Levinson

Posted on 02/07/2010 6:15:41 AM PST by wolfcreek

An unexpected feature of this year's gubernatorial race is the revival of certain political notions identified with early American history. Republican candidate Debra Medina in particular has made nullification a major aspect of her campaign, both in her two debates with U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison and Gov. Rick Perry and on her Web site, which includes, under the label "Restore Sovereignty," the message that the U.S. Constitution "divides power between the federal and state governments and ultimately reserves final authority for the people themselves. Texas must stop the over reaching federal government and nullify federal mandates in agriculture, energy, education, healthcare, industry, and any other areas D.C. is not granted authority by the Constitution."

She does not specify the mechanism by which nullification would take place, but, obviously, she appears to believe that the legal authority to nullify is unquestionable, making it only a question of political will.

(Excerpt) Read more at statesman.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: South Carolina; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 10thamendment; constitution; liberalidiots; media; mediabias; medina; neoconfederate; notbreakingnews; nullification; paulbots; secession; sovereignty; statesrights; teapartyrebellion; tenthamendment; texas
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To: timetostand

You won’t have to move back, but if you want to we will welcome you.

We are going to take the whole thing back and pursue the Commies within to the very gates of Hell, on their way home.


101 posted on 02/07/2010 7:44:12 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one.)
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To: Solitar
In post #56 I gave you a link to see those arguments for nullification — if you have the courage to read them.

I assume you mean #66. Sorry, I don't have time to track down the book and read it before responding. I'll try and wing it.

The Alien and Sedition Acts died a well deserved death when Jefferson was elected. It's interesting to speculate what would have happened if they had been ruled on by a Marshall Supreme Court. My expectation is that they would have been struck down.

I don't disagree with Jefferson's belief that the acts were gross violations of the First Amendment. I disagree that it was the right of the states to decide that.

102 posted on 02/07/2010 7:50:19 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: FlyingEagle; Cacique; Non-Sequitur
“Whenever any form of government is destructive of these ends [life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness] it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government in such form as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness.”

Declaration of Independence, 1776

Please note that the above is not suggesting a "revolutionary" right but rather an intrinsic right of free men!

103 posted on 02/07/2010 7:51:28 AM PST by Bigun ("It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Who the victim is would depend on which side of the issue you are on, wouldn't it?

So an armed home invader may have a valid point? Wow.

The Feds operating beyond their limited, enumerated powers to overrun those who entrusted those powers to them are indeed home invaders. And they are certainly armed.

And here you are to play the role of smarmy defense lawyer hell bent on springing them on some technicality some they may continue their crime spree.

104 posted on 02/07/2010 7:52:44 AM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: wolfcreek

Could troublesome territories be ostracized into other states? For example give Chicago to Wisconsin. Or Los Angeles to Alaska.


105 posted on 02/07/2010 7:53:42 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: misterrob

The Feds have Military bases all over the world.
One in the Country of TEXAS is not unworkable.

Plus we have a terrorist living openly in Houston and NO one is doing anything about it.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4004172/is-this-man-a-moderate


106 posted on 02/07/2010 8:03:36 AM PST by Marty62 (former Marty60)
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To: tlb
And playing paintball occasionally with surplus army cammies...

So, you think those are the people who will be the first to take up arms to stand against a tyrant should it become the choice of last resort? C'mon.

107 posted on 02/07/2010 8:05:41 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.)
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To: FlyingEagle

Inalienable or unalienable?


108 posted on 02/07/2010 8:06:49 AM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Mouton

Very good points,


109 posted on 02/07/2010 8:06:50 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.)
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To: wolfcreek

The Mechanism for any vague nullification of an as of yet unmentioned Federal law, would have to take the form of the nullification participation by Multiple States.

I.E., it would not be just Texas. Misery loves company.

The Health Care “attempt” with its long fuse of “not effective until 2012” (don’t worry be happy) would give 50 states a long timeline to react violently with “State rights” laws (Legal or NOT). After all, the Courts move slowly when laws are reversed.

The Obama desperation of TAX now and implement later was an Assumption that Obama RULED the USA as a King, that once he passed an edict, Congress “would make it so, number one”.

So Perry and Texas, “Threatened” with a most excellent Idea for fighting Maxist laws passed in a hurry, and it helped slow down the Marxists and get cheers at the Tea Parties, but it was just a bluff, a threat, and the MSM picked it up (as designed) and spread the “ridiculous” threat.

MSM can be manipulated, and Texans can threaten DC, if DC threatens Texas.


110 posted on 02/07/2010 8:08:58 AM PST by 4Speed
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To: Cacique
I do not think that there is any more pernicious influence today, nor one more immediately suited to radical surgery than American public education. After all, it is in the public schools and the post-secondary academies where Progressivism's roots run deepest. By intentionally poisoning young minds against their own culture and indoctrinating them in a collectivist ideology hostile to traditional American values, our educational establishment has laid the groundwork for Progressive politicians to build on.

John Dewey and his ilk began this process one hundred years ago with a determined goal in mind; we would do well to create an opposing force with equal determination to oppose it.

111 posted on 02/07/2010 8:09:52 AM PST by andy58-in-nh (America does not need to be organized: it needs to be liberated.)
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To: Cacique

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CN/htm/CN.1.htm#1.2

inalienable


112 posted on 02/07/2010 8:10:23 AM PST by FlyingEagle
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To: Solitar

I’m sure this is a captain obvious statement, but, it seems plain to me that the states not only have the Constitutional right, but the duty to refuse to obey un-Constitutional laws or actions taken by the federal government. This is not secession. It is not required.

I find the situation similar to being given an order in the military that violates the military code of conduct. The soldier is not required to follow that kind of order. He/she may get into lots of trouble and have to defend themselves in court, but they do not have to be “out of the military” in order to refuse to obey.

The question will remain - does the particular state refusing to follow a specific federal law on the basis of nullification have the political and moral will to follow it through to the end? I hope the answer is “yes”.


113 posted on 02/07/2010 8:11:09 AM PST by Nevadan
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To: wolfcreek

From the article,before its absurd conclusion(perhaps 49 states,lets give California to China to eliminate debt).
“But, of course, slavery is no longer the issue of the hour in American politics, and we have the luxury, so to speak, of being able to return to more basic issues of constitutional theory (and potential practice).”
I beg to differ but taxes,not willingly rendered,are most assuredly a form of slavery.


114 posted on 02/07/2010 8:14:03 AM PST by wiggen (Never in the history of our great country have the people had less representation than they do today)
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To: FlyingEagle

If my understanding is correct it is that inalienable is a legal term that simply means not subject to change or retraction, whereas unalienable which is used in the declaration means God given, endowed by our creator and thus inviolate under any circumstance. Perhaps some one who has breached the subject can enlighten us as to the nuanced differences.


115 posted on 02/07/2010 8:16:53 AM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

>>>So, you think those are the people who will be the first to take up arms to stand against a tyrant should it become the choice of last resort? C’mon.

Yes, but only in their fantasy worlds. Red Dawn is a wonderful film, but some seem to be losing the ability to differentiate movies and real life. Assuming they ever could.


116 posted on 02/07/2010 8:17:53 AM PST by tlb
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To: Non-Sequitur
I read it to mean that Medina believes the opposite. That she believes that states have the Constitutional right to nullify federal laws.

Agreed...and the columnist disagreed with her.

And that means she has never actually read the Constitution or skipped right past Article VI.

No...it means that you're assuming the Bill of Rights doesn't exist. Article VI is limited to only the powers that the federal government actually is allowed, which is very limited and is granted at the will of The People through The States.

And as James Madison wrote: "But whilst the Constitutional compact remains undissolved, it must be executed according to the forms and provisions specified in the compact." This was written directly in the nullification correspondence with Daniel Webster and can't be ignored. And it is preposterous to suggest that the government outlined by the compact can have primacy of definition (i.e., self-definition) over those who executed the compact. That's like saying man has primacy over God, even though God is the Creator. The People are not Frankenstein with a self-defining, rampaging monster...the federal government must remain within its roles defined by the States as enumerated in the Constitution.

117 posted on 02/07/2010 8:18:01 AM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: 4Speed

Montana and Tennessee have voted to nullify federal gun laws.


118 posted on 02/07/2010 8:18:15 AM PST by Solitar ("My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them." -- Barry Goldwater)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Only two implied that, and Madison himself said that the concept of conditional ratification was ridiculous.

IOW, Texas (along with New York and Virginia--and Rhode Island) is still an independent republic and nullification is moot.

119 posted on 02/07/2010 8:23:20 AM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

“I read it to mean that Medina believes the opposite. That she believes that states have the Constitutional right to nullify federal laws. And that means she has never actually read the Constitution or skipped right past Article VI.”

You worry about Kansas. We’ll take care of Texas. Otherwise we’ll be seeing you on the Red River.


120 posted on 02/07/2010 8:24:36 AM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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