Posted on 02/13/2009 2:41:18 AM PST by SvenMagnussen
A high-powered team of Los Angeles attorneys representing President Obama in his effort to keep his birth certificate, college records and passport documents concealed from the public has suggested there should be "monetary sanctions" against a lawyer whose clients have brought a complaint alleging Obama doesn't qualify for the Oval Office under the Constitution's demand for a "natural born" citizen in that post.
The suggestion came in an exchange of e-mails and documents in a case brought by former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and others in California. The case originally sought to have the state's electors ordered to withhold their votes for Obama until his eligibility was established. Since his inauguration, it has been amended to seek a future requirement for a vetting process, in addition to the still-sought unveiling of Obama's records.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
“Sure, detective or police work involves a certain amount of speculation. But people aren’t arrested in this country based on mere suspicion. That’s for communist police states. Is that what you’re advocating?”
No I’m not advocating that we arrest him YET. That will come after we prove he knowingly defrauded the public and file the appropriate criminal charges. Right now this is a political/civil matter to determine his NBC status, using the normal tools of civil procedure such as motions, supoenae, and summonses. His Nixonesque stonewalling creates problems, but the truth will out, even as trolls like you seek to obstruct its’ unveiling. Kinda like in the early stages of Watergate.
That you would disregard the facts of this case such as a school registration document in a foreign country, created in the 1980s long before he runs for president listing him as Barry Soetero, religion: Muslim, and an Indonesian citizen as not rising to the level of probable cause is beyond me. But since you wish to disregard all the adverse facts in this case to protect this crook, I guess it really is NOT surprising.
Are there any photos or first hand testimony of Stanley being pregnant? I don’t recall. I’ve heard people say it’s inconceivable that a pregnant woman would go to Africa, when she was near birth.
Is there any possibility that she went there to adopt a baby? We know how enamored she was of dark, foreign men. There’s a divorce paper trail, so apparently she married BO Sr. But there doesn’t seem any evidence that they ever lived together, or even much evidence that they were ever even seen together.
As a matter of fact, I don’t remember any evidence that Sr. was even around for the birth, and Sr. and Stanley lived in two different states for Jr.’s first year, and when Stanley then returned to Hawaii, Sr. had already left for Harvard. It very much seems like a marriage on paper only. Maybe at one time he was hoping to use the marriage as a way to become an American citizen.
From what I can tell about her, she was pretty weird and messed up. I suppose there’s a possibility that adopting a dark baby from Sr.’s home country may have been an attempt to pull Sr. closer. And in parallel with Sr.’s apparent lack of concern about having a child or a wife, Stanely certainly did not seem like she was a very maternal person. That could happen if it wasn’t her birth child and she was adopting a kid for immature reasons for her own devices.
Are we aware if anything in the timeline or evidence that would preclude Jr. not being Stanley’s child by birth?
“Sophistry and the law? No. It is the very foundation of this republic.”
From Merriam Webster’s Dictionary sophistry: subtly deceptive reasoning or argument
This republic was founded on the priciples of Federalism, enumerated powers, individual rights, respect for private property, and the rule of law. You reveal your contempt for that as does Hussein. You are definitely a sophist, save your lack of subtlety.
Imagine for a moment if Kenya were suddenly a failed Islamic state like Pakistan or the Sudan...
What if POTUS had to take military action against Kenya?
The definition and intent of “natural born citizen” becomes clear instantly, doesn’t it?
It has nothing to do with Kenyan’s laws. The poster is talking about Obama’s loyalties (you knew that). If someone feels more connected to another country than their own, any in/action on their part may have more to do with their own feelings than with what is best for the country they are in charge of. What in the world has that to do with Kenyan law?
I haven’t found any proof that she was ever in Kenya until after Sr died in 1982 and then it is the word of Kezia mentioning Ann’s visit to Kenya.(Kezia’s word is suspect because of contradictions she has made) Ann seems to have vanished into thin air from the time she went to Hawaii until she appears on Mercer Island with infant Jr. I don’t think she went to Kenya while pregnant not the least of which were a matter of cost, time to travel (approximately 48 hours) and the matter of the required vaccines which no doctor would give to a pregnant woman.
From the testimony of her high school friends she didn’t feel it was necessary to marry or have children so I think Jr was an OOps that she had to deal with as best she could. In the end it was much easier to foist Jr off onto her parents than it was to raise him so she basically became a “holiday parent” with Jr going to Indonesia to spend Christmas and summer vacations with her. I am surprised that she kept Maya around as long as she did since Maya returned to Hawaii to attend Punahou when she was 14.
As far as Obama Sr seeing Ann as a ticket to becoming a U.S. citizen I don’t think he ever thought that. He was intent on getting a U.S. education and going back to Kenya to become part of a government in its infancy which would require skills he had learned in economics. The fact that he married another American, Ruth, and she returned to Kenya with him shows that his sight was focussed on the possibilities in Kenya not on America.
Yes it does. The intent of the Constitutional clause natural born citizen is a safeguard against loyalties to another nation besides the United States as president. Obama once a citizen of Kenya defies the 'natural born citizen' clause.
To the posters who are researching Hawaiian laws about BCs - what do the laws say about getting a Hawaiian BC for a child from another country adopted by a Hawaiian citizen? Could that child get a Hawaiian BC in 1961? Would they fall under that rule that says that a mother just has to have considered Hawaii their home for the previous year?
It needs to be bought into an objective court for a definitive ruling. I keep reinterating that fact because his legitimacy WILL be challenged in the forthcoming months, no matter what you say. You are the one who says less information is better. A proper inquiry would resolve the paradox of which you speak.
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Hmmm. Well, is there any proof that she was pregnant, though? I suppose she could have adopted him in Canada, or even here.
I’m just interested in ruling things out, when possible. It just occurred to me that it may be an assumption that she gave birth to him. Given that he won’t release his original birth certificate, what do we actually really *know*? So I’m wondering what *evidence* there is that she was actually pregnant (it could be out there, and I’m just not aware of it)
“Are you going to say someone can’t be President of the United States because they have relatives in another country? “
Of course not. Certainly presidents may have relatives in other countries. The question is loyalty, and in Obama’s case, regardless of having relatives there, his Kenyan heritage is apparently very important to him (based on reports of his books), and IMO, this guy has spent his life trying to figure out his identity (and I don’t think he has solved it). IMO, that’s a little dangerous.
One attempt to prevent divided loyalties is the NBC clause. The NBC clause was one attempt to establish loyalty, but it doesn’t cover all possible situations of divided loyalty. Obviously, even an NBC could conceivably have divided loyalties, for their own reasons. A proper vetting process should turn up such issues in the case of an NBC, but a fawning media doesn’t lend itself to true vetting.
The point is, the issue is divided loyalty. The NBC was developed to help address the issue.
Did you honestly miss the point, or do you just think you’re being clever...?
There has been nothing released to show Ann was pregnant but that in itself isn’t unusual. Women in the 60’s didn’t show their “baby bumps” like they do now, and living in Hawaii the clothing was an advantage especially with the mumus. On the other hand Jr’s close appearance to that of his grandfather shows that Ann was indeed his mother and passed on the Dunham genes. Remember that even on tv husbands and wifes weren’t even filmed in the same bed, they used twin beds. Fred and Wilma Flintstone broke down that barrier! As late as 1968 I can remember my mother commenting about how outrageous it was that one of my teachers was still teaching when she was about 6 months along.
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