Posted on 08/16/2008 11:59:35 AM PDT by XR7
LAKE FOREST, Calif. — When John McCain and Barack Obama appear on the same stage today, they will vividly demonstrate the reach that has made the Rev. Rick Warren among the most significant evangelists of his generation.
He's a megastar who leads the nation's fourth-largest church and reaches thousands of ministers through the Internet and crusades against poverty and AIDS. That globe-trotting work and his successful book — "The Purpose-Driven Life: What on Earth Am I Here For?" — puts him at the vanguard of a movement that inspires young, socially conscious Christians.
But his willingness to soft-pedal political issues once central to U.S. evangelicals, such as opposition to abortion, has opened him to criticism that he has strayed from his calling to spread the Gospel.
Today's forum also is a sign of religion's importance in the 2008 presidential campaign, and the emergence of a new style of evangelical leadership on the national stage that is not tied to a single party and has broadened its social agenda beyond that of the religious right.
"This is absolutely a changing of the guard, and it suggests that the new guard of the evangelical movement is able to generate the attention and focus of both parties," said D. Michael Lindsay, a sociologist at Rice University and author of "Faith in the Halls of Power: How Evangelicals Joined the American Elite."
Warren personally invited the two candidates — "friends of mine" — via their cellphones. His event at the Saddleback Church will be broadcast live on CNN and Fox News Channel and streamed on the Web. It has among its aims "helping the church regain credibility and encouraging our society to return to civility," he said.
It's likely that fans and critics will be watching closely...
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2062984/posts?page=2060#2060
That’s how. I think ‘sophoist’ is over the top when talking about Keyes. If McCain picks a good running mate, then his ‘straight talk’ means something. Otherwise ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2063142/posts?page=50#50
bttt
Me too. My neck ached.LOL That and his looking down to answer the questions, really got to me. He had to look down to try to come up with a “good” answer or try to remember what he was told to say.
Maybe it was Michelle's god-awful wardobe.
Seriously, I think he was just peeing his pantz with anxiety over "facing" McCain in this setting.
Grecian Formula washed out while body-surfing in Hawaii.
Yes he did.
Query: Who has a “pay grade” higher than the President of the the U.S.? If not him, who? The Pope? We know what BXVI’s opinion on life is...
Regarding life in the U.S.A., however, I cannot think of anyone more important than the POTUS.
Merci d’être ici. Je suis descendu de huguenots français qui est venu ici en Caroline du Sud il ya de nombreuses années Majure .... ..... J’ai toujours aimé la France, un bel endroit avec la bonne nourriture et les femmes. Nous aimons votre nouveau président ici et son adorable épouse.
The tagline I use about rednecks is a play on this satirical country song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n_HuvNKVGg&feature=related
I know we all have major problems with McCain but boy he sure waxed equivocating Obama last nite.
MCCain should stick to this. Be precise and throw the red meat out there and let folks see the distinct differences.
And call Obama on it when he tries to deny things like he’s not pro-abortion.
True, lol.
Obama even wants to allow full term babies that are unfortunate enough to survive a botched abortion to die. The man is cruel and heartless and in violation of God's word with no intention of repenting.
I think she is back at Wideawakes or some Carolina forum.
Her and nopardons, onyx, etc.....
the latter two were a mixed bag for me anyhow...howlin was not
she and her posse ran roughshod over dissenters here for years and then when they bristled against JR and others here over Rudy they basically bit the hand that fed them and ran off crying to become the very thing they had accused others of for 8 years....anti-freepers.
and we are all better off.
that pack was responsible for sandbagging and bushwacking and running off more conservative stalwarts here over the years than any other FR clique
in fact today, I am not aware of any clique here that runs around en masse looking to bait an get folks banned.
we still have plenty of cliques:
gun guys and gals, southerners, black GOPers, free dope crowd, the womyn, etc but none act like the old Harpie posse did...thankfully
Don’t know if it was mentioned (I’m too lazy to go through the 2,000 responses again) but I heard a caller into the local radio say that Rick Warren told Obama “You hit a home run with that answer”. Supposedly it was during a commercial (caller said he was somehow watching the feed).
This plus the high five and the pastor’s “uh-huh” responses to McCain showed RW’s bias. Too bad for him that his plan to paint Obama as someone that Christians can be comfortable in backfired.
And all the local girls said to buy the red truck ....I did !.......;o)
#256: Matchett-PI: “’King James Version Only’ proponents are religious kooks”
#266: Blogger: “How open of you”
#492: Guenevere: “That is so not true”
I never argue with tin-foil-hats (either the “true believers” in the global warning crowd, nor any of the others). I’ll merely present the facts, and let the reader (who may be interested) decide whether or not the “KJVO” crowd are tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists or not. bttt
Dethroning the King James Advocacy
A review of James White’s The King James Only Controversy
by Kristi http://www.tektonics.org/books/whitekjvorvw.html
There has been a civil war of sorts raging among some Christians for the past two to three decades (some may justifiably argue it has been going on for several more decades than that). Unless you have been living under a rock and have not noticed the proliferation of “King James Only” (sometimes called “Authorized Version Only,” or, “A.V. Only”) websites, books, and tracts, you should already be aware of this issue and what it involves.
For those of you who are not familiar with this KJO (King James Only) movement, I will give a (hopefully) brief summary here. An in-depth construction, of course, is detailed within The King James Only Controversy by author James R. White.
White is careful to differentiate the ideological differences and reasonings of those who adhere to KJOism; not all “KJOers” hold identical views.
At its core, King James Onlyism is a belief system held by individuals (most of whom, as far as this reviewer has noticed, are Neo-Fundamentalist, very conservative, Independent Baptists) who maintain that “modern” Bible versions, such as the N.I.V. and N.A.S.B., among the many other versions, cannot be trusted. Various reasons are given for this by King James Only proponents, but the one most frequently cited are those that are based upon— someone call F.B.I. Special Agents Scully and Mulder— conspiracy theories.
It is alleged by “KJOers” that a long list of conspirators, such as-— New Age Believers, Roman Catholics, ancient Alexandrians, Origen, Satan, homosexuals, liberal scholars, conservative Christian scholars, Gnostics, and ancient Greek philosophers (why they have not included little green aliens, the “Cigarette Smoking Man,” or “the second man behind the grassy knoll” is puzzling)— have all inserted false teachings into the modern versions, the modern texts, and the Alexandrian manuscripts, or else have deleted verses in the attempt to distort God’s Word and to lead people astray.
Even those who are not terribly interested in this debate should read White’s book to familiarize themselves with the history of our Scriptures. As White points out, too many Christians are, unfortunately, ignorant of this process. This ignorance makes them susceptible to becoming convinced of the claims of King James Onlyists. Ignorance of this issue also makes one less adept at intelligently responding to, and refuting, certain arguments of skeptics who say that the Holy Bible (regardless of whatever version is being discussed) is “just another religious book” or a collection of myths and is not reflective of a work that was, in the very first copies, divinely inspired.
White explains how our Bibles are based upon texts, with the texts, in turn, being based upon ancient Hebrew- and Greek- language manuscripts. These manuscripts (and there are literally thousands of them) are copies of the Autographs. The Autographs are no longer in existence, which many in the KJO camp find troublesome, but White demonstrates that this is really not a problem and is no reason to uphold the KJV 1611 as the ONLY Bible for the English-speaking peoples or to insist that the KJV 1611 alone is “God’s Word”—
-—Nor, should I add, is it a solid argument for atheists or other non-Christians to question the trustworthiness of the Bible. This reviewer has visited websites by skeptics who misuse the fact that we no longer have the Biblical Autographs to “prove” that the Bible is not God’s Word, or to “prove” that the copyist (scribal) errors within the manuscripts, or the translational errors within Bible versions, are synonymous with errors of a scientific, historic, or theological sort, which they are not. It is apparent that this argument comes about usually because the non-Christian is ignorant of textual criticism and the like, as are many KJOers.
Concerning the chapters in White’s book that deal with manuscripts and textual issues, I felt somewhat confused and found myself having to re-read this material. It is hard for me to determine how much (if any) of this confusion should be attributed to White’s writing style or to the fact that I had never before read about these issues which are, at first glance, not easily grasped due to their complexity. Looking back, I suspect it is more of the latter and not the former.
Contrary to the many reviews by KJOists of this book, White does not “attack” the King James Version; he quite clearly states that the KJV is in fact God’s Word and that his book is not written to “run down” or to throw doubt on the KJV. As White correctly surmises and explains, only the Autographs are totally without error, but that Bible versions, which are translations of the underlying manuscripts, are without error only to the degree that they accurately reflect those manuscripts.
Other issues addressed in The King James Only Controversy include: explanations of textual criticism, the differences between lower and higher textual criticism and the role lower textual criticism plays in the Biblical writings; information on the Alexandrian and Byzantine manuscripts; Erasmus’ Greek text (called the “TR,” or Textus Receptus), background on Westcott and Hort and their significance in the KJO debate; the distinction between Translational verses Textual differences; and information that the modern versions have not “deleted,” “omitted,” or in any way down-played certain teachings or beliefs (e.g., Christ’s divine nature).
Particularly helpful are some of the last chapters within the book. One of these lists the specific verses that KJOists often bring up in debate as “proof” that the people who have worked on the modern versions have, in some insidious, demonic plot, removed verses and doctrines from the Scriptures with the malicious intent of twisting or destroying God’s Word. White gives detailed reasons— ones which are sensible and not in the least demonic or conspiratorial— for why these verses are either not included, or why they are placed in foot notes or in brackets, and shows that where a verse may be “left out” in one area, a virtually identical verse can be found elsewhere in the same Bible version.
The “Question and Answer” section near the end is also very helpful. White has collected some of the more frequent arguments leveled against the modern Bible versions (some examples of which are-— modern versions have copyrights; Westcott and Hort were supposedly evil, heretical men; doesn’t Pslams 12: 6-7 support KJOism; wasn’t there a homosexual on the N.I.V. committee, etc.), and he has refuted these points. The end-notes of every chapter contain more useful information and should not be overlooked.
Sadly, and as White documents in The KJOC, the King James Only movement is largely marred by dishonesty and name calling. He spends at least one chapter describing the key leaders in this movement (e.g., Peter Ruckman and Gail Riplinger), and how they misrepresent, misquote and lie about just about everyone and everything.
Often with KJOists, as White discusses, historic facts are twisted, misapplied or invented (e.g., Codex Sinaiticus was found in a monk’s closet and not in a trash can); and quotations from the books of others are, by use of “creative” editing on the part of KJOers, made to appear as though the author believes one way, when in fact, the author believes something entirely different. (White gives more than ample evidence and examples of all this in his critique of Gail Riplinger’s New Age Bible Versions book, and he also documents the fradulent or inaccurate aspects of Peter Ruckman’s writings.)
Lastly, and perhaps worst of all, some within KJOism find it necessary to engage in ad hominem. It is either said out-right or suggested by many King James Onlyists that those who do not share their KJO belief are either “Alexandrian Cult Members,” “heretics,” “apostates,” “Bible Haters,” or any number of the many other derogatory, insulting terms they typically use.
For a well-researched, honest, fair, and level-headed look at the King James Only debate and the subjects related to it (such as textual and manuscript concerns), one can do no better than starting with James White’s book, The King James Only Controversy.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1556615752/tektonministries
I miss some of them admittedly....I like Torie....
There was been just as big an re-entry as there was an exodus.
I’m not sure Howlin was formally banned but the manner in which Mad Ivan’s (whom i like) site was preengineered and then these folks clashed with the powers that be here and then ran off to Wideawakes and ran 100s of anti-freeper threads including these “sandbox” and “salt mine” hidden threads which were very vile did not make many friends left here.
They were almost as nasty as the clowns...many of them are now at Darwin Central or maybe that Pachyderm site.
After that a number of former freepers like myself and Travis McGee banned for a year during the immigration wars here by ..yes Howlin and Sinkspur in a late Sunday nite sandbagging, were invited back.
Happy to be here and at least to me it seems like the High School wolf pack nature of picking on dissenters is over.
What did I like about Howlin?...nothing really but I was empathetic to her personal tragedy for sure.
FR is now more socially conservative, most of them were older more culturally liberal women who left...at least the harpie posse was.
FR is still composed of many younger conservatives who are more obsessed with the correct answer on race, ethnics, and gender stuff than my generation are....political correctness is so insidious.
Regardless, after last night, I've come to the realization Free Republic is no longer a home that feels welcome....it's just not a good fit anymore.
..even though it's been my only home for 9-1/2 years...and I have no other....
..I'm homeless :(
I thought about writing an opus...
..but who cares to read an opus from an old Freeper.
Instead I will say this...
..there are some here who are pure gold & I cherish them.....have learned from them....and will carry them in my memory.
There are others, however....
Well, suffice to say, there were many last night falling all over themselves for McCain...a few who genuinely surprised me.
McCain?????....Good mercy, how quickly some of you forget......there's nothing more to say, except my condolences.
Eternal Vigilance, I have your info & I will keep in touch...
God bless your efforts.
Kim, bless you too!
Cicero, your posts are a must read!
American in Tokyo, Bless you and thanks for your efforts too, as well as bcsco's daily attempts to get our attention & wake us up!!
Those others & there are others!..Thank-you for your continued efforts to keep our nation sovereign and secure!
Brad'sGramma....just because I love you!
Keep on taking care of those babies....It was a blessing to be on your thread when my little granddaughter was in such need.
Mr.Robinson & John Robinson...God bless and Thanks.
I'm logging off, and you may remove me from the site....but thanks again for all the years, it was lovely!
Good to see you again Shield.
I could probably find lots to disagree with Rick Warren on if I wanted to but so many so called followers of our Lord Jesus are telling outright lies about him. I know enough about RW that he is a Godly servant of Christ and teaches Christ is the only way of salvation, contrary to the vicious lies spread about this good man.
These attacks and lies seem to be coming mostly from one particular denomination and a little from another denomination and both are looking more and more like the religious legalists Jesus rebuked 2000 yrs ago. When you look at these people, do you see the love of Christ or the power of God - NO ....just meanness and a strict legalism without the presence of God in their midst.
It makes me sad.....I well think this may be the great falling away....with their love having grown cold and hearts offended they are doing satans own work attacking and accusing the people of God. They think they have doctrine on their side but satan knows doctrine well also and there is no love or mercy in him.
We all know Obama in Justices will give you the most leftist around.
We know Obama will give us tons of new taxes, government programs and a ton more Democrat voting government employees.
I hate McCain, but compared to Obama or Hillary, he is still a much better and safer bet.
Being there is no pure candidate running of any merit, it would be impossible to appease all of us who await another Reagan.
I think you are reading more about people hoping to God Barry doesn't get in than gushing over McCain.
Very few love McCain here I am sure of that.
Good luck to you, God bless you and your future where ever you choose to leave it.
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