LIVE THREAD - UPDATE: TOOKIE WILLIAMS EXECUTED

Fox news | Dec 12, 2005

[commish]

Gov. Shwarzeneggar expected to make announcement on Tookie Williams Execution Clemency shortly according to Fox News.

[Semper Paratus]

He is waiting for Rush to be over.

Then he was waiting for a Best of Rush show to be over.

[BunnySlippers]

And the media seems to be salivating for riots.

[add925]

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[CounterCounterCulture]

Yes, I'd figure since Rush Limbaugh is in a "Best of" mode today, I'll relunctantly turn on the telly for the announcement. Reminds me why I usually have it off. ;-)

Now I have local (SF Bay Area) news on now.

[laney]

What's that song..*This is how we do it*
L.A grew up there before it turned into an extension of the 3rd world...

They might riot but no body complains until it leaves South Central.

[rom]

Yes, that is one of the most ridiculous notions for belief in God that I have ever seen. When I was in philosophy class when I was in college, I was aghast when I heard that argument (and immediately lost a good deal of respect for Pascal).

I have over the years, come to believe in God (gone from athiest to agnostic to the doorstep of Christianity). It is my belief that anyone who uses such a souless approach really doesn't understand what faith is!

And MineralMan, though you and I disagree 90% on the topic of religion I have complete respect for you. You are someone who is at peace with himself and the world, and if there is a God you have nothing to fear :). If there isn't then you've left the world a better place by visiting, and that's all anyone can ask for in this life. Your arguments are always respectful towards the views of others, and I cannot say the same for some of those who argue against you.

But as for the anti-death penalty arguments you've made, I think you are completely out of touch ;)

[WV Mountain Mama]

And when they riot, they don't care who they put out of business or hurt. They are taking it to The Man. They don't even know what they are rioting for or what sparked it, they are just taking back what's theirs from The Man.

[MineralMan]

"But it is you who is setting the conditions of immediacy. Why do you get to set those conditions? To support your position? The state sets conditions for which cases qualify for the death penalty. Those aren't as valid as yours? "

---

Doug...immediacy is immediacy. My opionion is my opinion. The state does what it does with the consent of the governed, at least on principal.

I'm setting no conditions on the state. I'm merely detailing my own ethical beliefs regarding the death penalty.

Some states execute. Some do not. The difference is in the will of that state's citizenry.

Do you agree with everything your state does? I know that you do not. That does not mean that you deny their authority to carry out the laws of that state. Nor do I.

I'm speaking only about my personal beliefs. The State of California will do what it does according to its laws. I will do as I do, based on my personal ethics. There is a major difference between the two entities. I am not the state, but merely one citizen of it.

[confederate_infidel]

Bring out Ol' Sparky. Crank her up to ohhhh...5 kazillions volts shall we say?

[xp38]

Now I have a big problem with that. To me these death by lethal injections are way too lenient on these criminals. I would rather have them in conditions that would make them wish for death but is denied.

[conservative physics]

Actually there is no need to argue the point biblically, pure logic will do.

Society either has the right and obligation to punish wrongdoer's or it doesn't. If it doesn't have that right, then you are arguing for anarchy, since if disobeying the law has no consequence then there is no law.

If society has that right, it also has the right to determine the type of punishment dealt out for any particular offense up to and including the ultimate punishment.

[babaloo]

I think it is the mindset that "If you do not own it, who cares?" but, to be honest, I do not understand it either. The poor police officers and fire fighters are at tremendous risk--not to mention the innocent bystanders.

[InsureAmerica]

he won't go for clemency because he can't pronounce it.

I think it would not be difficult to say that he will do nothing becayse the courts have already spoken....

[Chena]

Fox News report....Jesse Jackson compared Tookie to Nelson Mandela, Malcom X and even Moses!

[infidel29]

If Jesus didn't believe in the death penalty, then why did He pay it for us?

I never heard it put that way, but your analysis is right on!

[LanPB01]

I won't rest till Carl Weathers is the governor of some state.

[TChris]

5 kazillions volts shall we say?

It's the current (amps) that kills, not the voltage.

[CaptRon]

Then he is truly stark-raving mad.

[redtetrahedron]

I hope that Arnold makes that phone call to the death chamber at the last minute......and tells Tookie that he just saved himself alot of money on his car insurance by switching to...... I just about burst out loud laughing on that one ...

[MineralMan]

"Seriously, why are you an atheist rather than an agnostic? Since it is impossible to scientifically prove the non-existence of a god it seems to me that agnosticism is the most rational position.
"

It's a long story, and not appropriate for this thread, really.

Many are agnostics. I find that position to be untenable. I cannot prove the non-existence of any deity. Neither can believers prove the existence. I simply find myself unable to believe in the existence of the supernatural. So, I don't believe that any deities exist. It's quite simple, and quite logical, from my personal perspective. Others' perspectives may differ.