Posted on 12/12/2005 10:45:34 AM PST by commish
Gov. Shwarzeneggar expected to make announcement on Tookie Williams Execution Clemency shortly according to Fox News.
Even though I am all but an Athiest, I actually do feel sorry for the guys "immortal soul" or whatever, for his humanity. Of course his actions have betrayed those, so I dont feel sorry for him. I get no joy out of executions, although if the victims were a family member of mine, I am sure they would make me happy.
"Are you arguing that since Jesus preached forgiveness that no one on earth should be punished for their crimes in any way? "
In an earlier message, I said that my personal ethics are not derived from any religion. Rather, they are a synthesis of many different philosophies. I have great respect for the teachings of Jesus with regard to their application to society. I have equally great regard for the teachings of many philosophies. Where they merge is where you'll find the basis of my own personal philosopy and ethics.
Bullsh-t, that is a load they (CA)have killed 11 since 72 and tens of thousands have died because of lax laws - swift and sure is the cure. Swift means = guilty - walked them into the yard fire a bullet in the head and throw them out in the trash. Sweet and simple - period - I will live with the error factor.
If he grants clemency, he can speak anytime, if he doesn't, the best time is LATE this evening; after the streets are quieter. Better yet, a prepared, written statement in the 11th hour.
'Course that may be too logical for politicians...so who knows for sure.
Then what of Romans 13:4 and Revelation 13:10?
"But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for [the state] beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."
"... he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword..."
I don't think so..My own outrage at Tookie's crimes may be coloring my opinion.
:)
1) John 1:1, Jesus has always been there, with God, meaning He was there when God instituted the death penalty in the OT. It has never, ever been changed---it is impossible for Jesus, or God, to change.
2) It is impossible for the Father and Son to disagree, and since Jesus was there "in beginning," He had to say "Yes, and Amen" to every one of the Commandments (not just the 10), including those that required death for sorcerers, homosexuals, and so on. Jesus said "Yes, and Amen" at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and when the city of AI was wiped off the map. He could do nothing else.
3) Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law (complete it) but "not to destroy it." He gave us a higher law, a Law of Love, that in no way permits CIVIL society from acting responsibly to defend itself or punish criminals. Indeed, if you look at "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, but vengance is mine, saith the Lord," that is in the context of a broad discussion of CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. The entire intent is that government, and not invidivuals on vendettas, should enforce justice.
4) Paul says that the state "does not wield the sword in vain, . . . but to EXECUTE WRATH." That to me sounds like the OT, where the intent is that the state, NOT individuals, is the mechanism for justice, including capital punishment and wars. He didn't even say "but to enforce justice," but to "execute wrath." That tells me Paul believed in armies and the death penalty.
Although you are "almost certain", you are wrong. He did answer the original question, which was a restatement of the class of philosophical arguments known as "Pascal's Wager". MineralMan's answer outlines one of the (many) longstanding identifications of the several logical fallacies inherent in the question.
Nobody's sure what "pollice verso" meant -- it isn't clear from the contemporary texts.
Seriously, they cover chase after chase after chase. What is left to cover on this subject?
Death sentence is commuted to Life without possibility of parole.
Yep, He is also unchanging. He's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Therefore, His orders on the matter are still the same.
FRY TOOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!
"Maybe Arnold's thinking that it is best not to have rioting for the 4 days preceding Tookie's death."
That makes perfect sense.... there is always time for them to riot afterward.
But on that topic, why on earth would you burn down your neighborhood as seems to happen in cases like this?
Dude lost another tire, slowing down, hopefully this is about over.
The left's plan(?)
Phase 1 was clemency
Phase 2 was freedom
Phase 3 was annointment to position of power
LOL! Love your tagline.
Make it five. But oh, I hope not. I hate to see the life of anyone taken, but I'm thinking of the lives of the four people he murdered and joked about it, I'm thinking about the untown probably THOUSANDS of lives (innocent ones) that were taken by his founding of the Crips. Add to that the fact that he still hasn't taken responsibility for his actions, while those who support him say he is redeemed. It is hard to be "redeemed" when you don't take responsibility for what you've done.
If he walks, it will be the end of death penalty in this country, or the beginning of the end. Then you will see people murdering people and becoming "redeemed" and let out on the streets to murder again.
If Ahnold does ever speak sometime today, and if he doesn't grant clemency, as he folds up his podium papers to exit the room, I choose the songs:
Another One Bites the Dust" or "I Feel Good" by James Brown
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