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Modern humans, Neanderthals shared earth for 1,000 years
ABC NEWSonline ^ | Thursday, September 1, 2005. 3:29pm (AEST)

Posted on 09/02/2005 2:31:25 PM PDT by ckilmer

Last Update: Thursday, September 1, 2005. 3:29pm (AEST)
A reconstruction of the face of a young female Neanderthal.

A reconstruction of the face of a young female Neanderthal who lived about 35,000 years ago in France. (AFP)

Modern humans, Neanderthals shared earth for 1,000 years

New evidence has emerged that Neanderthals co-existed with anatomically modern humans for at least 1,000 years in central France.

The finding suggests Neanderthals came to a tragic and lingering end.

Few chapters in the rise of Homo sapiens, as modern mankind is known, have triggered as much debate as the fate of the Neanderthals.

Smaller and squatter than Homo sapiens but with larger brains, Neanderthals lived in Europe, parts of central Asia and the Middle East for about 170,000 years.

But vestiges of the Neanderthals stop about 28,000 to 30,000 years ago.

At that point, Homo sapiens, a smart, ascendant sub-species of humans originating in eastern Africa, became the undisputed masters of the planet.

So what happened to the Neanderthals?

One intriguing school of thought is that the Neanderthals did not suddenly disappear off the map but gradually melded in with Homo sapiens culturally and possibly sexually.

Interbreeding resulted, meaning that what we, today, supposedly carry some of the genetic legacy of the Neanderthals.

But a new study delivers a blow to this theory.

It shows that the two hominids did indeed co-exist for a long time but there is no evidence of any intermingling.

Indeed, it points to the likelihood that the Neanderthals petered out, their lineage expiring in starvation and Ice Age cold.

Paul Mellars, a professor of prehistory and human evolution at the University of Cambridge, and colleagues dated bone fossils preserved by French archaeologists who carefully excavated layers of soil at a site called 'la Grotte aux Fees' (the Fairy Grotto).

The cave, located at Chatelperron between the valleys of the Loire and Allier, is already famous as a former Neanderthal habitat.

But what makes the site especially interesting is that bone artefacts and flints bearing the typical hallmarks of prehistoric Homo sapiens were also found there.

Professor Mellars' team applied the modern tool of radiocarbon dating to get a precise idea of the age of the bone tools and compared those dates to the soil layers in which they were found and knowledge of the climate that prevailed at the time.

They found that Neanderthals lived in the cave between roughly 40,000 and 38,000 years ago, when the climate was, for the last Ice Age, relatively balmy.

Then came a sudden and prolonged cold snap, when the temperature dropped by as much as eight degrees Celsius and Homo sapiens - apparently migrating southwards in search of warmer climes - inhabited caves for about 1,000 to 1,500 years.

Thereafter, the climate slightly warmed again.

At that point, Homo sapiens moved out and the Neanderthals returned, staying for a period that went from about 36,500 years ago to 35,000 years ago.

After that, there is no more sign of them.

"This is the first categorical proof that Neanderthals and modern human beings did overlap in France for more than 1,000 years," Professor Mellars said.

He says it is also convincing evidence of the Neanderthals' vulnerability to climate change and of the rise of smarter, more adaptable rivals.

"People point out that Neanderthals were biologically better adapted to living in glacial conditions than modern humans, that they were built a bit like eskimos and were better anatomically at coping with cold conditions, whereas modern humans came in from Africa, where they evolved with bodies that were taller and thinner and did not conserve heat so well," he said.

"Yet the evidence is here that modern humans could cope with cold conditions better than the Neanderthals thanks to culture and technology, for instance with better clothing, better fire control and perhaps better shelters."

Professor Mellars says Neanderthals and Homo sapiens probably lived near each other for long periods.

But he says no evidence has been found of cultural interaction and DNA tests on samples taken from 1,000 Europeans have failed to find any evidence of Neanderthal genes.

In short, the indicators point to the likelihood that Homo sapiens crushed or ousted the Neanderthals in the fight to survive.

-AFP



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: bear; bears; cave; caveart; cavedrawings; cavepainting; cavepaintings; chauvet; crevolist; france; godsgravesglyphs; lagrotteauxfees; macroetymology; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals; paleosigns; thefairygrotto
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To: ckilmer

They would have interbred if beer had been invented back then...


41 posted on 09/02/2005 6:31:39 PM PDT by Pharmboy (There is no positive correlation between the ability to write, act, sing or dance and being right)
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To: Alouette

Actually the movie, "The Thirteenth Warrior" was based on a novel by Michael Creighton named "Eaters of the Dead". He wrote it to prove to an English Professor friend that the original story of Beowulf could be made to be exciting and readable. That's right, "The Thirteenth Warrior" is a re-write of Beowulf.


42 posted on 09/02/2005 6:32:41 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: muir_redwoods
That's right, "The Thirteenth Warrior" is a re-write of Beowulf.

What always amazed me was, who didn't think Beowulf was exciting and readable?

43 posted on 09/02/2005 6:43:23 PM PDT by Wormwood (Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!)
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To: Wormwood
"What always amazed me was, who didn't think Beowulf was exciting and readable?"

Sadly, countless college freshmen over the generations.

44 posted on 09/02/2005 6:52:15 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: winner3000

"This does not augure well for the evolution theory. We keep seeing new species appearing seemingly out of nowhere instead of one specie evolving into another..."

No, both appear to have a common ancestor.

They were different branches on the same tree.


45 posted on 09/02/2005 7:04:36 PM PDT by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: muir_redwoods
Sadly, countless college freshmen over the generations

LOL. My fault for reading it in middle school.

/geek

46 posted on 09/02/2005 7:07:07 PM PDT by Wormwood (Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!)
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To: Wormwood

A good study that shows there was some overlap between Sapiens and Neanderthals. Careful enough to say it is proved.

That is all it says. The mitochodrial studies say there was no interbreeding that produced a viable lineage.


47 posted on 09/02/2005 7:22:03 PM PDT by JustDoItAlways
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To: ckilmer

Neanderthal man was Homo Sapien


48 posted on 09/02/2005 8:12:28 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (The radical secularization of America is happening)
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To: LiteKeeper
Neanderthal man was Homo Sapien

Actually that's the point in the air.

If it turns out that Neanderthal and modern man shared the same ecological range with no interbreeding, then Homo Sapiens neanderthalis is really Homo Neanderthalis

49 posted on 09/02/2005 8:19:15 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Multiculturalism is a natural outgrowth of homophobia (fear of the same))
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To: ckilmer
Modern humans, Neanderthals shared earth for 1,000 years

Then the Neanderthals formed the Democratic party.
50 posted on 09/02/2005 8:20:00 PM PDT by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: Oztrich Boy
What About the Neandertal DNA?
51 posted on 09/02/2005 8:37:26 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (The radical secularization of America is happening)
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To: PatrickHenry

Thanks for the ping!


52 posted on 09/02/2005 8:58:46 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: winner3000
This does not augure well for the evolution theory. We keep seeing new species appearing seemingly out of nowhere instead of one specie evolving into another...

On the contrary, science can see a path between each kevek if hominid evolution. You just didn't look into it.

But then again, what does creating multiple hominid species, some roaming the earth at the same time, all with varying levels of intelligence and capabilities, with all but one doomed to die out say about intelligent design? Why not get it right the first time? Why design failure after failure? Maybe you should change the name to "Damn, Let Me Try That Again" Design?

53 posted on 09/03/2005 4:26:22 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: squarebarb
Wasn't it the 11th warrior?

You're thinking of the Readers Digest Condensed version.

54 posted on 09/03/2005 4:28:06 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: LiteKeeper
Neandertals are one such branch of Noah’s descendants.

Please show us a verse in Genesis that backs up that fabrication.

55 posted on 09/03/2005 4:53:16 AM PDT by shuckmaster
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To: LiteKeeper
That's a good article. I enjoy how Creation publications mimic the language and patterns of a scientific journal without actually being scientific or doing research. The language lends credibility to an incredible conjecture. Sometimes they get the it wrong though.

...this, rather than primitivity, explains the stooped stupid-looking posture that most people are familiar with.

Is stupid-looking the scientific assessment of Neandertal posture? I'm sure it's just a temporary problem though. With all the time creationist thought leaders save by not doing so much thought, they can devote more time to improving their skills in the fine art of mimicry.
56 posted on 09/03/2005 5:28:50 AM PDT by crail (Better lives have been lost on the gallows than have ever been enshrined in the halls of palaces.)
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To: winner3000; PatrickHenry
This does not augure well for the evolution theory. We keep seeing new species appearing seemingly out of nowhere instead of one specie evolving into another...

Not true. See the following Phylogenic tree:

http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html

BTW, you can click on the tree for more detailed information.

57 posted on 09/03/2005 5:59:47 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: RadioAstronomer
That will soon be added to The List-O-Links. You've done well since your promotion out of the janitorial pool. Darwin Central is pleased.

On behalf of the Grand Master, I am,
PatrickHenry

58 posted on 09/03/2005 6:17:21 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Whooohooo! :-)

Here is the start of that site.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/aop/aop_start.html


59 posted on 09/03/2005 6:20:13 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: RadioAstronomer
Right. We already have one link to the Smithsonian's website (the one just before the last in what follows), and I had thought it was enough. But the part you mentioned was worth a link of its own. The relevant section of The List-O-Links now looks like this:

TONS OF EVIDENCE OF EVOLUTION
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution. Yes, macro-evolution.
Ichneumon's legendary post 52. More evidence than you can handle.
Post 661: Ichneumon's stunning post on transitionals.
Plagiarized Errors and Molecular Genetics. Anatomic similarities are confirmed by DNA similarities and copying errors.
Evidence of Evolutionary Transitions. There really is evidence out there.
Macroevolution: Evidence. Great info & links from the U. of Illinois website.
Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ. Yes, transitional fossils exist.
8,000+ papers on vertabrate evolution. National Academy of Sciences.
One gene produces major changes in stickleback fish. Stunning example of evolution.
Fossil whale with legs. Land animal to whale transitional fossil.
Feathered Dinosaurs.
Archaeopteryx. Reptile-to- bird transitional fossil.
Archaeopteryx: FAQS . A true transitional fossil
All About Archaeopteryx.
Evidence for Evolution . Compilation of links.
Human Ancestors.
The Evidence for Human Evolution. For those who claim there isn't any evidence.
Comparison of all Hominid skulls.
NEW Early Human Phylogeny. Relationships among early human species.
60 posted on 09/03/2005 6:38:45 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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