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What is time?
University of Helsinki ^ | 4/15/05 | Simo Salmela

Posted on 04/16/2005 4:19:09 PM PDT by beavus

The concept of time is self-evident. An hour consists of a certain number of minutes, a day of hours and a year of days. But we rarely think about the fundamental nature of time.

Time is passing non-stop, and we follow it with clocks and calendars. Yet we cannot study it with a microscope or experiment with it. And it still keeps passing. We just cannot say what exactly happens when time passes.

Time is represented through change, such as the circular motion of the moon around the earth. The passing of time is indeed closely connected to the concept of space.

According to the general theory of relativity, space, or the universe, emerged in the Big Bang some 13.7 billion years ago. Before that, all matter was packed into an extremely tiny dot. That dot also contained the matter that later came to be the sun, the earth and the moon – the heavenly bodies that tell us about the passing of time.

Before the Big Band, there was no space or time.

“In the theory of relativity, the concept of time begins with the Big Bang the same way as parallels of latitude begin at the North Pole. You cannot go further north than the North Pole,” says Kari Enqvist, Professor of Cosmology.

One of the most peculiar qualities of time is the fact that it is measured by motion and it also becomes evident through motion.

According to the general theory of relativity, the development of space may result in the collapse of the universe. All matter would shrink into a tiny dot again, which would end the concept of time as we know it.

“Latest observations, however, do not support the idea of collapse, rather inter-galactic distances grow at a rapid pace,” Enqvist says.

If you want to know more about the topic, visit Kari Enqvist’s website at http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~enqvist/.

Text: Simo Salmela Picture: ESO www.helsinki.fi/digitalcommunications

Translation: Valtasana Oy


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: astronomy; bigband; bigbang; cosmology; creationism; expansiontheory; physics; poofism; thefireinwhichweburn; time
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To: djf

I don't think rotating frames are inertial frames.


101 posted on 04/16/2005 7:42:53 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: hflynn
Sorry, sir, you are mistaken. Time is simply nature's way for keeping everything from happening at once.
;-)
102 posted on 04/16/2005 7:43:43 PM PDT by Tunehead54 (I'm not winking - this way I only have to hit the shift key once - so I'm lazy! ;-)
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To: djf
Even a tiny rotational amount of the ball means the outer reaches of the universe are now spinning at many times greater than the speed of light.

No, that is a variation of the "infinitely long swinging plank" dilemma. It doesn't violate relativity. The reason is that space-time in the outer parts (or inner parts; it's all relative) deforms so that no faster than light relative motion exists.

103 posted on 04/16/2005 7:44:07 PM PDT by steve86
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To: beavus

More important than TIME is TIMING...


104 posted on 04/16/2005 7:44:17 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: beavus

Why is it that humans must believe that everything has a beginning and an end? We cannot comprehend infinity.
IMO, the big bang theory is bs.
We will never understand time because there is no beginning or ending to it.


105 posted on 04/16/2005 7:45:12 PM PDT by SealSeven
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To: AndrewC

Well, as I (imperfectly) understand it, linear frames are handled by special relativity and rotating/accelerating frames are handled by the general theory.


106 posted on 04/16/2005 7:46:20 PM PDT by djf
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To: Tax-chick

A paradox, a paradox,
A most ingenious paradox--

Hahahaha hahahaha! A par-a-dox!


107 posted on 04/16/2005 7:47:31 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: BearWash

No, I understand that, I explained in #100 I was making a somewhat crude Newtonian comparison. I have no problem at all with the topology of relativity and the isomorphisms.

I am just saying something is counterintuitive.


108 posted on 04/16/2005 7:53:14 PM PDT by djf
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To: independentgrrl
If there was no "before the big bang" where does the 'extremely tiny dot" come from?

There's no "come from" because both space (which you would need to encompass the dot) and time (which you need in order to have a concept of an existence before the big bang) were created at the moment of the big bang.

109 posted on 04/16/2005 7:54:18 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: beavus
"Of course there was a before. Time always existed even if space as we know it did not." Problem. There is no way that time could ALWAYS exist. To say that time "always existed" is to say that time is infinite. So, then, time extends without limit into the past and without limit into the future. But that can't be possible. For time is a sequence and implies that SOMETHING is taking place in a sequence. But how can ANYTHING continue in sequence FOREVER in the past and FOREVER into the future? And how can anything occur if space does not exist and time does? How can there then BE a "before" if the context which gives "before" meaning has no moment within it that qualifies as a "before" moment? How can "before" extend to infinity relative to after? We enter absurdity here.
110 posted on 04/16/2005 7:54:34 PM PDT by Zakhur
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To: beavus
What is time?

The answer is 42.

111 posted on 04/16/2005 7:56:41 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: beavus
Before the Big Band, there was no space or time

There was jazz, though.

112 posted on 04/16/2005 7:58:59 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God)
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To: beavus

I believe that what we call "time" is only the human perception of change, and that it doesn't really exist.


113 posted on 04/16/2005 8:04:56 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Tax-chick

The Big Band era was in the 40's and was not hugely known for its effect on astrophysics. It was a good time to dance, however. I greatly prefer Big Band music to the infernal noise called music these days.


114 posted on 04/16/2005 8:08:12 PM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: beavus

There was no 'before the big bang'

Now all you have to do is prove it.


115 posted on 04/16/2005 8:09:48 PM PDT by Boiler Plate
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To: wizr
We would all be better off without clocks. There are too many people racing thru their lives because they don't seem to have enough time.

Move to Mexico City hire some electrical contractors to install a new junction box, light switch and light fixture. Then tell me if you feel the same way.
116 posted on 04/16/2005 8:14:39 PM PDT by Boiler Plate
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To: RadioAstronomer

I'm no physicist, but could the manifestation of Time be related to cosmic inflation? More space is coming into existence so could that be, in some way correlated to Time?


117 posted on 04/16/2005 8:18:35 PM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: beavus

Time is only the measurement of change.


118 posted on 04/16/2005 8:18:52 PM PDT by floridarocks
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To: djf
Well, as I (imperfectly) understand it, linear frames are handled by special relativity and rotating/accelerating frames are handled by the general theory.

Well, then I guess you'll have to figure out how something 4 light years away from the ball is supposed to know that it should start moving.

119 posted on 04/16/2005 8:18:52 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: AndrewC
This is because the time frame encompasses the universe, which is everything including time.

Well then, oh great and wise wizard, what fluctuated and for how long?

This Universe is within a bandwidth of resonance from the highest frequency (smallest resonant cavity.. Planck, perhaps) and the lowest frequency (the resonant cavity of the Whole). All within is a miraid of frequencies caused by mixing in non-linear structures. Much like in a radio mixer stage, put in 2 frequencies and out comes the original 2, the sum and the difference frequencies. The actual lowest frequency is eternity caused by the sized resonant cavity of infinite expanse, growing at an unlimited rate, and the highest frequency is never, caused by the resonant cavity size of ever collapsing infinitesimality, also at an infinite rate. Time for us is only what our shockingly narrow bandwidth of frequency reception is capable of permitting us to perceive. I do believe that at Infinite ON (expanse) and Infinite Off (infinitesimality), they are actually two of the multiple sides of the same "Coin".

Hmmm... heaven is "up" (expanse, infinite ON), Hell is "down below" (infinitesimality, infinite Off) Just maybe heaven and Hell are real, physical places. The ancients maybe knew this. Just didn't know how to word it.

Just a thought.

120 posted on 04/16/2005 8:27:22 PM PDT by USCG SimTech (Honored to serve since '71)
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