Is circumcision the kiss of death or source of life?

Toward Tradition ^ | 2/21/2005 | Samuel Silver

[Babwa]

The national news media is abuzz with a story about the possible link between the tragic death of an infant Jewish boy from herpes and his circumcision. At the same time, the media has not fully reported on the fact that circumcision could save millions of lives from the scourge of AIDS.

The problem is that circumcision is in the Bible, which makes it a serious violation of the religion practiced by the majority in academia and the mainstream media - secular fundamentalism. They have stood by while millions died and continue to die. How differently they value human life than Judaism and the Judeo-Christian tradition.

[followerofchrist]

"MEDICAL BENEFITS FROM CIRCUMCISION
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Circumcision/circumcision.html

Read the part under "Anti-circumcision lobby groups" to see what kind of people are behind such efforts."

Dr. Dean Edell is anti-circumcision, and I have great respect for him as a Jew and as a doctor. Do your own research instead of finding a few people you don't like to discredit the opposition. Also check and see how much money is made by those who favor circumcision. How would anyone benefit from being "anti" circumcision?

[longtermmemmory]

I think it is fair to say that in this day and age the only reason to have a male baby circumcised is only religion. This is particularly true of those with the Jewish faith.

It should be noted that one of the earliest debates of the newly formed christian church. (conversion by faith alone etc.)

Dr. Arnot (I believe) has done a number of news pieces on this subject. There are obviousl strong feelings on this issue. It would be interesting to see the statistice of circumcised men who have their sons left uncircumcised and then compare that with the uncircumcised men who do have their sons circumcised.

[exnavychick]

P.S. I don't mean any of what I said in a disparaging way towards you or any other Jews, for that matter. To my mind, it's part of a long-standing tradition and religious belief...I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do, or that you are wrong for doing it.

This was simply a personal choice on my part.

[daguberment]

Bush is behind this circumcision. I just know it.

[longtermmemmory]

The source for this article is a jewish rabbi who is justifying his religious practice.

Good to keep it in mind. The issue should be debated on pure science and not mix religion with this issue.

Other than for religion, I think it should be left to adult males if they want their nerve endings chopped off.

[followerofchrist]

Here are a few links against circumcision. The lack of concern here tells me people aren't putting thought into the issue. THINK about it before you do it to your kid. The second link is from Dr. Dean edell's web site.

http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/

http://www.healthcentral.com/specials/circumcision/circumcision_intro.cfm

[familyop]

Congratulations on your new grandson!

[longtermmemmory]

(sarcasm on)

The beneficiaries would be the sinster and evil soap conglomorate corporations. (does Haliburton have a soap division?)

Imagine the QUADRILLIONS that will be made from MILLIONS of penises being washed with soap! If the nerve endings are chopped off once the soap industrial complex will loose a fortune.

Big Soap is behind the anti-circumcision movement.

(end sarcasm)

[Alouette]

I think it should be left to adult males

Two problems with that.

#1, Jews are commanded to perform brit milah on the eighth day after birth.

#2, Non-Jewish males are not required to be circumcised at all, but the procedure is much more painful when performed on an adult.

[KC_for_Freedom]

This was simply a personal choice on my part.

Yes, I understood that. No offense taken, and likewise for me. This is one of those things in religion that are/should be no one else's business, and not subject to ridicule one way or the other. I was not and my son was not circumcised for health benefits one way or the other, it was a commandment, we were circumcised for religious reasons. Thats all there is to say. (Which is why I don't argue over the benefits or adverse effects of it. Why did Dr. Dean start this anyway? ) There is a poignant story in The Source by Michner about one of the characters chosing to undo his circumcision at the time when Greece powers held the land of Israel. The boy wanted acceptance and since they wrestled in the all together he could not participate as a Jew. His religion would be known to all. It broke his father's heart.

[Cicero]

No question that circumcision is healthier for all concerned.

Also, the more I think about it the more I doubt whether this story is true, that the baby died from herpes caught by the rabbi.

Pretty nearly everyone today probably has herpes--from chicken pox, from kissing someone, or transmitted in some other manner. Cold sores are commonplace.

As a rule, newborn babies have higher immunity than anyone else, which they draw from the mother.

If herpes was the cause, I'd say it was probably a one in a million fluke. But frankly I doubt it. I suspect that someone in the hospital had an agenda when they looked into the causes of death. Yes, it's possible; but I doubt it.

[Gondring]

Sounds like you have things reversed, as you build your argument on a false fear rather than fact.

First of all, I am most definitely not homosexual, and among all the anti-circumcision advocates I know, not one is a homosexual activist.

And without going into too much detail, let's just say that it's common for women to be very appreciative of their uncircumcised partner's sensitivity.

Meanwhile, many of the main promoters of circumcision are those who are trying to claim a huge AIDS epidemic in Africa is because of heterosexual relations.

BTW, why do people fight against circumcision of baby girls if it's so great? I suppose you'd be just as actively supporting this if Muslims wanted to brand their sons with the hilal (crescent moon and star), or Christian girls were to have their tongues cut out, or whatever mutilation the parents want?

In fact, I'd be against all of them...though at one time I would have agreed that parents could do as they wished with their children until the age of majority, I can no longer keep that position.

[longtermmemmory]

1. this is why I said "religion aside"

2. How doe we KNOW that adults exprience more pain? All the same nerve endings are present. It may be explain by the diffent lives of babies vs adult men. Adult clothing, walking, and day to day movement versus a baby lying around crying all day. Besides IF it really is more painful then it would speak to the nerve endings in the foreskin.

I think on this issue it is very important to respect the religious practice of circumcision. OUSIDE of religion there is more than enough now to support the termination of any notion of routine circumcision.

[Gondring]

No question that circumcision is healthier for all concerned.

Huh? Do you even read a thread before posting?!?

[null and void]

If I'd have been old enough to make the decision, I would have had it done with pinking shears...

[Radix]

"It is not medically necessary to be circumcised, it is only necessary for the (ahem) 'owner of the equipment' to keep everything clean and sanitary. Anyone suggesting otherwise is deluding themselves, and attempting to delude others."

It is always good to know that so many physicians are lurking and even occasionaly posting out here on FR.com.

Good because life is not always so simple, and those of us who are merely like the neanderthals can always use a bit of guidance.

[Alouette]

Here is a picture of my previous grandson's bris held in Israel.

It's a very nice picture so don't feel imtimidated to click the link.

[Vor Lady]

A very lively thread! My husband and I are not Jewish, but Christian. We have had our sons circumcised for a couple of reasons: We were told by the midwife and Dr. do what Dad had done and my husband's adoptive father recommended it. Why did Grandpa recommend it? Because he was in the South Pacific during WW2 and was miserable because there was so little water to wash up with! He and several of his ship mates had serious problems with sand getting under their foreskins. He told us to circumcise the boys because we wouldn't know where they might end up as adults. None of our boys seems to have had a problem with them; my husband and I were present for all of them. The boys seemed to object far more to being restrained on the papoose boards that the docs use than from the cutting. Two of the docs used local anesthetic which may have helped.

Congrats on the birth of your grandson!

[null and void]

Ya gotta love a culture that celebrates everything with a feast...

[benjaminjjones]

This is a touchy subject, LOL!

Personally, I'd rather have mine back, but there's no sense in crying over spilt skin LOL.

I guess the prevailing wisdom at Walter Reed way back then told them to chop it off. Hey, I had no choice in the matter.

Hasn't impaired me in any way, but I wonder what i't be like with the thing still attached. I might be a bigger mainiac than I already am!